P-38 & The Yoke

[MachFly]

I was thinking why does the P-38 have a yoke? The yoke was originally designed for heavy aircraft that did not have hydraulic controls or fly-by-wire, also it was used on heavy aircraft that had hydraulic controls as a back up. Now the P-38 is significantly smaller and lighter than all those bombers and airliners that required to yoke to operate, so why does it need a yoke?
The stick is so much better for maneuverability.

[Karnak]

I have read that the Mosquitos with the yoke, i.e. the bombers, were actually easier to maneuver than the ones with the fighter stick, i.e. the fighters, required by Fighter Command.

Lockheed may have concluded that the yoke was superior to the stick.

[clerick]

keep in mind, the 38 isn't all that light. It weights 3x more than most fighters, not including external stores.

[MachFly]

keep in mind, the 38 isn't all that light. It weights 3x more than most fighters, not including external stores.

I wouldn't call it 3 times as heavy. Take a look the P-38's empty weight compared to the empty weight of some of the aircraft with a stick.

P-38: 12,800 lb

P-51: 7,635 lb
Typhoon: 8,840 lb
Tempest: 9,250 lb
P-47: 10,000 lb
F6F:  9,238 lb
Do 335: 11,484 lb
TBF: 10,545 lb
Mosquito: 14,300 lb
Bf 110: 9,921 lb

[Seanaldinho]

I wouldn't call it 3 times as heavy. Take a look the P-38's empty weight compared to the empty weight of some of the aircraft with a stick.

P-38: 12,800 lb

P-51: 7,635 lb
Typhoon: 8,840 lb
Tempest: 9,250 lb
P-47: 10,000 lb
F6F:  9,238 lb
Do 335: 11,484 lb
TBF: 10,545 lb
Mosquito: 14,300 lb
Bf 110: 9,921 lb

Could the extra fuel in the 38 put it at the three times the weight?

[Scherf]

I have read that the Mosquitos with the yoke, i.e. the bombers, were actually easier to maneuver than the ones with the fighter stick, i.e. the fighters, required by Fighter Command.

Lockheed may have concluded that the yoke was superior to the stick.

John "Cat's Eyes" Cunningham certainly preferred the yoke, which he encountered in the Mosquito NF.XV, a rare-bird high-altitude version.

[MachFly]

John "Cat's Eyes" Cunningham certainly preferred the yoke, which he encountered in the Mosquito NF.XV, a rare-bird high-altitude version.

Why is that?

[Ack-Ack]

Many years ago I experimented with using a yoke flying the P-38 and personally found it easier to use than a stick.  The only problem with it was trying to use my Pro Throttle along with it as the throttle on the yoke was in a rather inconvenient spot and it made it rather cumbersome.  Control wise though, I thought it was better than a regular stick.

ack-ack

[Karnak]

Why is that?

IIRC, it gave more leverage than the stick did.

[MachFly]

IIRC, it gave more leverage than the stick did.

I think that would be very specific to the way the stick is made. You can have a short stick with not much leverage and you can have a long stick with more leverage. The stick is normally connected to the floor, the distance between your hand and the point at which it's connected to the floor is longer than the side of the yoke to the center of the yoke. So regarding the ailerons the stick should have more leverage. 

[MachFly]

Many years ago I experimented with using a yoke flying the P-38 and personally found it easier to use than a stick.  The only problem with it was trying to use my Pro Throttle along with it as the throttle on the yoke was in a rather inconvenient spot and it made it rather cumbersome.  Control wise though, I thought it was better than a regular stick.

ack-ack

Would you happen to remember what kind of yoke you used?
I think because there are a lot of different kinds of sticks and yokes you can connect to your computer the comfort would depend more on how much you paid for the specific control unit rather than it's type. For example a $200 yoke can feel a lot more comfortable than a $20 stick.

[clerick]

Could the extra fuel in the 38 put it at the three times the weight?

Ding ding!  Load up a 38 and, IIRC, you can break the 21k mark. Not 3x than most (my bad), but beefy none the less.

[MachFly]

Ding ding!  Load up a 38 and, IIRC, you can break the 21k mark

What about the other aircraft that can carry a lot of fuel? The aircraft I mentioned above (Besides the Typhoon & Tempest) can also carry a large amount of fuel. I don't have the exact numbers for them (yet) but I really can't imagine them having a more than 30% difference.

[Jabberwock]

I wouldn't call it 3 times as heavy. Take a look the P-38's empty weight compared to the empty weight of some of the aircraft with a stick.

P-38: 12,800 lb

P-51: 7,635 lb
Typhoon: 8,840 lb
Tempest: 9,250 lb
P-47: 10,000 lb
F6F:  9,238 lb
Do 335: 11,484 lb
TBF: 10,545 lb
Mosquito: 14,300 lb
Bf 110: 9,921 lb

Empty weight in the late P-38Js production blocks and the Ls was actually 14,100-14400 lb, not the commonly quoted 12,800 lb.

If you look at when the P-38 was designed and introduced, it was significantly heavier than other US fighters of the period.

Empty weights

P-38D: 11900 lb

P-36A: 4570 lb  
P-39C: 5070 lb  
P-39D: 5460 lb
P-40: 5380 lb
P-40B: 5590 lb
P-43: 5655 lb

[Seanaldinho]

What about the other aircraft that can carry a lot of fuel? The aircraft I mentioned above (Besides the Typhoon & Tempest) can also carry a large amount of fuel. I don't have the exact numbers for them (yet) but I really can't imagine them having a more than 30% difference.

Still though the 38's wing tanks must  be absolutely massive.

Ding ding!  Load up a 38 and, IIRC, you can break the 21k mark. Not 3x than most (my bad), but beefy none the less.

Yay!