Author Topic: Rewarding small-unit actions  (Read 2462 times)

Offline Tank-Ace

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Rewarding small-unit actions
« on: January 06, 2012, 01:03:27 AM »
I've been thinking, the fights that were going on last I played were usually quite pitiful creatures. Almost always heavily in favor of one side. The ones that were pretty even were usually involving two massive hordes that just resulted in a stagnating fight.

Now bear with me on this, but perhaps a way we could encourage people to get away from the hordes and into some real fights would be to modify the darbar so that the smaller the group, the more lenient it is with regards to the altitude cap. A single plane (or even a bomber formation) won't set off the darbar until the player climbs above 20k. Up to 3 planes can go to 10k without setting off the darbar. Up to 5 can go to 5k. Up to 8 can fly at 2k, 10 can fly at 750ft. 10-15 players can fly at our current 65 ft without showing a darbar, but 15+ will always show a darbar regardless of altitude. They can still horde all they want, but if they want to horde, they'll have to fight for the field.

Those are just some ballpark numbers I threw out there, they are of course up for adjustment. We would need a trial period and see if we need to adjust the requirements for a map win, or the % of buildings to be destroyed before a base capture. But what this would do is encourage players to use small-unit tactics and take a field by being smarter or sneakier than their opponents (yeah I know, using our brains, scary  :uhoh). It would also more accurately show a small group's ability to slip past unnoticed, finesse a difficult situation, and reach an objective much more neatly than a larger force, as well as the larger forces' lack of aforementioned abilities.


You can still take a base virtually without a fight (or even without any fight if you're good), you can still choose to shut off your brain and just smash through with brute unthinking force, or you can go somewhere in between. The ONLY change is that you can't both horde and take a base without a fight.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline MAINER

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2012, 07:16:56 AM »
Some good ideas!  :aok
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Offline Rino

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2012, 07:47:52 AM »
     It sounds like it would make it harder to find a fight but encourage high alt porkers or pickers.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2012, 08:00:57 AM »
That is a love/hate situation.  Think of it this way, if you're on AH at a particular time of day when few players are on, how do you find where the enemy is at?  The radar bar.  On the other hand, if you want to take an aircraft in to a situation that is a bit hot for a simple attack run, etc, if you are in anything but the fastest of aircraft you will intercepted or chased down.

I wish there was a way to change dar-bar and NOE settings based on the number of aircraft in a sector.  A Mossi or 2 heading in for a precision attack at 5000ft is a bit different than a 20+ P47 brute force attack coming in at 15k against an entire field.
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Offline Raptor05121

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2012, 09:51:20 AM »
That is a love/hate situation.  Think of it this way, if you're on AH at a particular time of day when few players are on, how do you find where the enemy is at?  The radar bar.  On the other hand, if you want to take an aircraft in to a situation that is a bit hot for a simple attack run, etc, if you are in anything but the fastest of aircraft you will intercepted or chased down.

I wish there was a way to change dar-bar and NOE settings based on the number of aircraft in a sector.  A Mossi or 2 heading in for a precision attack at 5000ft is a bit different than a 20+ P47 brute force attack coming in at 15k against an entire field.

But its easy! Lets get some P-51Hs, P-39Q, P-80s, etc, etc so we can just go faster!

/sarcasm
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2012, 10:13:16 AM »
The radar bar. 
I'd like to clarify something... as I understand it The DAR BAR is NOT RADAR...? It's supposed to represent Visual Observation Reports ? As such it's pretty non specific and a simple indicator of enemy activity that is fairly realistic ... It seems to me to work exceptionally well at providing players with much the same information that real pilots had. Am I misinformed? If it ain't broke, lets not screw it up trying to fix it.
:lol

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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2012, 06:25:32 PM »
no, that you can fly below its minimum altitude of detection would suggest its radar.


Rino, like I said, those were just some very general numbers I thew out there. The main goal is to reward small unit operations, and to place penalties on large hordes (ie, no stealth, which is actually pretty realistic).

We could easily drop the solo altitude to 10k, and reduce other increment each accordingly, or make it 10+ is always visible. Hell, we could drop the reward aspect for small group tactics, and just put penalties on flying in a horde.


But as I've said, the main goal is to encourage players to break away from the horde. Once you've said that the horde is easy to find and always generates a fight, even if a poor one, you've exahusted all of its positive qualities. I feel overall health of the gameplay quality would improve if we could get away from the hordes.


Also, new strategies would result from this. Multiple groups ariving from multiple directions so as not to break the radar limit of either group, while still maintaining overall strength at the target.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

"Once more unto the breach"

Offline Butcher

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2012, 06:31:44 PM »
The game play hasn't changed much over the years, Aces High would need to be re-modeled, for example the Radar was dropped from 200 to 65ft to combat NOE missions, which moved NOE missions to hordes of P51s to drop entire hangers.

I do recall many years ago the fights were far better, and no hording - a few NOE's here and there, nothing special.

Then again many years ago I probably ignored all the hording at the time or was apart of it, pretty sure lusche will drop by to say it hasn't changed :)
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2012, 08:07:52 PM »
no, that you can fly below its minimum altitude of detection would suggest its radar.
See...you're making things up again ... Maybe revist the training area. study the BASICS, and LEARN what's actually going on?

"Bar-Dar refers to the green and red bars which appear at the top of each sector containing friendly and/or enemy. It simulates a country’s total air defense warning system of spotters and reports giving a general location of planes."

Low flying planes minimise line of sight and so escape detection. ??? DAR = Detected Aircraft Reports ??? any body know what DAR really stands for?

The main goal is to reward small unit operations, and to place penalties on large hordes (ie, no stealth, which is actually pretty realistic).
The main goal of the GAME is to help the members ENJOY the simulated environment and activitys available to them. NOT to manipulate them into some perverse behavior that limits their options. Visual Observation was a BIG factor in WWII ... The English went so far as to organise a special corp that relied on those unable to serve in combat. They trained personel to recognise enemy aircraft and use mechanical instrument to estimate altitude and record bearings. They built and equipped special posts and wired them into a central operations hub that monitored enemy activity. are you really proposing that this REALISM be scrapped because YOU don't like the way SOME people choose to play the game?
:eek:
« Last Edit: January 06, 2012, 08:11:15 PM by EVZ »
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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2012, 08:28:45 PM »
dar stand for:

-raDAR?
-Daily Afternoon Randomness
-Designated Airworthiness Representative
-Defense Acquisition Radar
-Distributed Array Radar
-Daughters of the American Revolution

not sure many different acronyms.



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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2012, 08:42:44 PM »
Wow EVZ, if you don't know that you can fly below radar altitude and not have a darbar displayed, you're even dumber than I thought.

"Perverse" is hardly the best word to describe it. Infact, its about the last word anyone who truely understands whats being said would think of. But then again, you've shown a lack of understanding of concepts more complex than, "I want it, gimme gimme gimme!" in your pfeil thread.

As previously stated, this wouldn't limit anyone, unless their end goal is to take bases without fighting, which they can do offline for the exact same expierence. People could still fly as they wished. They can horde if they want, or they can do small group base takes. But they wouldn't be able to avoid fighting by flying NOE with a 30 man horde with the express intent to capture the base before defenders can up and resist.


So really, there isn't any limits or restrictions imposed on anyone. Its simply giving defenders an advantage.
You started this thread and it was obviously about your want and desire in spite of your use of 'we' and Google.

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Offline Raphael

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2012, 10:59:29 PM »
DAR = Do A baRrelroll!
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2012, 11:11:39 PM »
Wow EVZ, if you don't know that you can fly below radar altitude and not have a darbar displayed, you're even dumber than I thought.
I guess if reading the training docs HT provides is dumb? Then I'm Guilty ... Dar-Bar is not radar ... it's line of sight observation. Go and read for yourself. http://trainers.hitechcreations.com

Flying UNDER RADAR removes your red dot from within the radar ring. Two different things controlled by 2 different settings... If I got it right? DAR_BAR was set at 250 ft in the last scenario, RADAR was at 450 or 500.

"Perverse" is hardly the best word to describe it.
Perverse is the perfect word, when you get done reading the training doc, look it up.

As previously stated, this wouldn't limit anyone, unless
Unless they're doing something you don't like ... but they obviously do ...

Its simply giving defenders an advantage.
Exactly.
:eek:
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Offline EVZ

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2012, 11:18:03 PM »
DAR = Do A baRrelroll!
OK ... Contest time, Best Definition of DAR wins ... Prize = 1st Flight in a DO335 when HT adds it to the game !!!
:rofl
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Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: Rewarding small-unit actions
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2012, 11:39:55 PM »
OK ... Contest time, Best Definition of DAR wins ... Prize = 1st Flight in a DO335 when HT adds it to the game !!!
:rofl

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