Author Topic: Autotrim/Auto Climb Problem (Read 768 times)

Karaya One · « **on:** February 21, 2000, 03:24:00 PM »

Is it me or most of you finding it difficult to get out of autotrim/climb?

I remember in WB's when you could just set the autopilot and when it was time for maneuvering, you would just move the stick and it would disengage.

With AH, it seems to only dis-engage on the roll. Never pitch. Takes a good yank. Sometimes it doesnt dis-engage at all.

Needless to say, it has caused me countless augers. One of my squaddies told me to disable it with a keystroke before hand but old habits die hard and so am I.

K1

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2000, 03:48:00 PM »

First thing.. check your deadband setting for pitch.

What I have found is that the auto pilot disable is simply delayed... resulting in a jerking motion. If I move the stick and press the x key almost simultaneously, the auto usuall re-engages.

I will admit though.. WB auto is a more effortless (apologies to Wr101 instructor).

AKDejaVu

Duckwing6 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2000, 03:52:00 PM »

i got so used to the roll disenage that i just wiggle the stick a little when i want to get aut of auto .. also my dampers and deadband for roll are the smallest ..

Hangtime · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2000, 04:47:00 PM »

Hunh. K1 points up a 'bug' tho... it shouldn't stick so bad.

Example. You've set on autoclimb, and while typing; tracers fly by.

What do yah do?

For years on years; I've stuffed the stick forward into the corner and slammed in full rudder.

Now; nothin happens. Auto set simply don't unlock, and the sortie is over.. cept for the fireball... and another punted cat.

I happen to like my deadband settings as they are... I shouldn't have to compromise my sets to accomodate a lagging autoset release. They should release instantly on the slightest input from roll, pitch OR YAW!

Hang

Creamo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2000, 05:54:00 PM »

It's harded-coded into the game as a anti-Alt monkey AOL chat-feature defeater/payback.

Look in the hex code file: Aces High/Autoclimb/-all aircraft section.

LOG:3657./hex= ALT"X" + 20minutes, / activate sticky key@ when /+ chat exceeds 100 open channel post +/- ALT 27K when <callsign>"Hangtime" exception,set sticky code 10!, (delay 3 seconds.)

Some callsign variables are disabled, some have diffrent degrees of stickyness depending on ALT, and number of characters typed in a set time frame.

Its write in the code. See?

hitech · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2000, 06:47:00 PM »

Hangtime it does release with a gentle pull only thing there is a 2 sec lag from engaging to being able to disengage with the stick. This is to overcome the problem of getting trim on with out having to release the stick first.

HiTech

Hangtime · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2000, 08:42:00 PM »

Just did some experimentig.. seems I'm applying rudder a hair sooner than stick motion in panic mode. And the autotrim lags on release.

Stick motion only pops it loose; but negative G motion delays release of autotrim.

Any aft movement of stick releases autotrim instantly.

Is this correct?

Should the rudders or negative stick motion NOT release autotrim?

Thanks!

Hang

Karaya One · « **Reply #7 on:** February 22, 2000, 09:06:00 AM »

Thanks for all the comments.

After reading the threads I went back into my setup and reset my deadbands and dampeners to zero. I dont fly with them all at zero but I wanted them set this way for testing.

My finding were very similar to Hangtimes.

1) Autopilot will not release for rudder inputs. Zip, Zilch, Nada.

2) It takes 3/4 of back pressure (pitch) to release the autopilot and when it does release, there is a noticiable nose bounce. You can compensate for the bounce but who has time to be gentle in combat

3) When stickboard (pitch) there is a lag until it releases. When "mushing it in the corner" there is probably a second to two second delay. That is an eternity in combat, often resulting in damage or death.

4) I have noticed, on several occassions ( augers) during takeoff that the autopilot will not release. Once I hit any trim key, the plane will leap off the runway.

5) When either autopilot/autoclimb is set, you cannot use any trim. In Warbirds you could make sublte changes to the planes trim while the autopilot was engaged. I found this handy for refining course and alittude.
Not so in AH.

K1

Karaya One · « **Reply #8 on:** February 22, 2000, 10:40:00 AM »

Made a mistake,

You CAN trim with rudder while under autopilot.

K1

Minotaur · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2000, 12:07:00 PM »

Karaya One;

I have never had your problem, I give it a little aileron wiggle and Otto disengages.

I also have OttoAngle mapped to one of my joystick buttons. While I usually do not use this mode of trim, except for flying in formation. It does come in handy for that reason and for one more.

Example:
Say; I have Otto engaged, and I am merrily climbing. I get jumped by an NME plane. With a flick of my thumb I can be out of Otto mode. Even though the mode I was in was OttoClimb, I can use OttoAngle to disengage OttoClimb.

OttoTrim works in an On/Off fashion. Once an Otto mode is engaged, selecting "Any Other" Otto mode will disengage it.

Additionally, I notice some things about "Otto".

After engaging Otto there is a minimium time it wants to be engaged. During this time, joystick movement will not disengage Otto. Only pressing another Otto key, will it disengage.
If you engage Otto from a very out of trim condition at an odd angle of attack and from a low speed, it will do some pretty weird things. Be ready!
Try to let Otto stabilize the flight of the plane before disengaging it (10seconds). The trim result of disengaging Otto too soon, can be much worse than not using it at all.

Tip:
Use the rudder to manuver your BUFF when you are in a gunners position.

Good Luck!

Mino

Hristo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 23, 2000, 12:43:00 AM »

HT, can you please implement the feature of removing the 2 seconds lag ?

Feels almost like a stick damping...a bad thing. I want my controls to be as direct as possible, no lag.

Usually when someone surprises me from my six, here's what happens:

I push the stick, but plane stays in auto trim.

I panic and push some more, still nothing.

Then I press autotrim button again to get out of trim, but now my plane has exited the autotrim mode due to stick movement....and guess what, my button push returned it in the autotrim again ! Bah !

That procedure made me auger or die quite a few times. Also, I cannot exit autotrim mode with any rudder input.

Please, can we choose to have the 2 seconds lag removed (translates to: can we have WB autotrim model)?

This model just gets me nose bounce even if I get out of trim by using stick input.

[This message has been edited by Hristo (edited 02-23-2000).]

hitech · « **Reply #11 on:** February 23, 2000, 09:23:00 AM »

If you need to move your stick 3/4 of the way somthing else is happing. The auto will kick off with 10% stick deflection. I can posibly lower this to 5% but then we risk the auto kicking off due to stick spiking.

If you have to move farthar than 10% its due to your stick scaling.

I won't remove the 2 sec lag because it make engaging the auto much easyer. Other wise in an out of trim state you would first have to center your stick before you could engage the auto pilot.

The resone rudder dosn't kick you off from auto is that with key board rudder people forget to center the rudder after engaging auto. It would be more problematic to have auto kick off 2 secs after engaging wrathar than to ignor the rudder for auto kick off.

Mox · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2000, 11:24:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech:
I won't remove the 2 sec lag because it make engaging the auto much easyer. Other wise in an out of trim state you would first have to center your stick before you could engage the auto pilot.

The resone rudder dosn't kick you off from auto is that with key board rudder people forget to center the rudder after engaging auto. It would be more problematic to have auto kick off 2 secs after engaging wrathar than to ignor the rudder for auto kick off.

I guess I don't understand why we have to have this delay that you say you will not remove. What's wrong with being able to engage the auto trim faster?

On your second comment about people using keyboards: If you goal is to have a "main stream" user base then you've missed that already with your price per month. Lets face it most of your customer base is NOT the "main stream" internet user and it will never be.

If there's an advantage to NOT using the keyboard then most of us who don't already have rudders/or twist stick will get them. Why try to catter to the minority instead of the majority of your users?

I hope you're not thinking of making this great game more "main stream". Please tell me your not! =)

Mox
Thw Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Mox (edited 02-23-2000).]

hitech · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2000, 03:30:00 PM »

Mox you miss understand. Autotrim engages instantly, theres a 2 sec lag before it will kick off with stick movement after first engaging it i.e. you are given 2 secs to move your stick back to center or letting go of it , after pressing x.

As to moving more main stream , it's not realy moving more main stream as it is keeping an eye on items that keep a new user from being frustrated. In v1.01 we have added a new auto pilot that will take the plane off for you and leave you in auto climb. This dosn't change the game at all but addresses the most asked question for anyone new entering the game, how do I take off.

HiTech

Mox · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2000, 05:20:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hitech:
Mox you miss understand. Autotrim engages instantly, theres a 2 sec lag before it will kick off with stick movement after first engaging it i.e. you are given 2 secs to move your stick back to center or letting go of it , after pressing x.

As to moving more main stream , it's not realy moving more main stream as it is keeping an eye on items that keep a new user from being frustrated. In v1.01 we have added a new auto pilot that will take the plane off for you and leave you in auto climb. This dosn't change the game at all but addresses the most asked question for anyone new entering the game, how do I take off.

HiTech

HiTech, after reading your original message and my response a few times, I understand what you meant. I hope you didn't take my comments the wrong way. I've worked with a lot of developers (games and other programs) and I tend to "cringe" when I start to think that they might be trying to "sell out" and go for the cash as opposed to making the best product they can.

I've seen many games ruined when a developer started to cater to the whiners for the sake of getting a broader customer base (i.e.: Everquest and UO are perfect examples).

I agree, there are many things you could do to help the beginners to AH. I had a difficult time in the beginning, myself.
Some good documentation on the sliders in the joystick calibration would go a long ways in helping a beginner.

The best thing this sim has going for it is the people. Your team and all the other players from around the world are some of the most patient and helping users you could hope for.

Mox
The Wrecking Crew