Author Topic: Is it aim, luck, or both?  (Read 3013 times)

Offline titanic3

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4235
Is it aim, luck, or both?
« on: January 09, 2012, 08:33:45 PM »
To me, I can never really "aim" for a specific part on a fighter plane (note I didn't say bomber), because of their size. I can certainly hit them, but aiming for a specific part, say cockpit or wing tips is almost impossible to me. It seems to me that once you get the whole plane in your gunsights, that's as far as "aiming" goes, from then on, it's just luck (disregard ACM, convergence).

What about you guys and gals, are you actually capable of aiming for a specific spot on a maneuvering target and hit it with a high chance of success? Or are you like me, and just try to keep your target in the sights for as long as possible until your bullets do something?

*This is for fighter planes only, not bombers, due to their size which means accurate/concentrated fire is 100% possible to achieve. 

  the game is concentrated on combat, not on shaking the screen.

semp

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2012, 09:49:17 PM »
I do actually aim for a specific spot on a fighter, and have learned to hit it or very close to it on a regular basis.

In any type of shooting, you'll do much better long-term if you aim for a specific spot.  It's a method to help refine your concentration.

It does take some practice, and discipline to learn though.  But once it's learned it becomes automatic.

In AH, I always aim for the point where the fuselage meets the front edge of the canopy.  I don't always hit it of course, but I aim for that same spot, and try to hit that same spot every time.  If the plane is turned away so I see the bottom I just aim for that same point on the belly of the plane, imagining my bullets passing through that point and hitting the spot where the front of the canopy meets the fuselage.  On bombers I aim specifically for the right wing root when I attack.

In real life, I do the same thing when I shoot.  When shooting trap or skeet I focus on the front edge of the clay pigeon.  When hunting upland gamebirds or waterfowl I hone-in on the birds beak.  When shooting deer I pick a tiny spot to aim at; this might be a specific tuft of hair, etc if the deer is close enough to see that.

One trick I learned as a kid that definitely holds true is "Aim small, miss small.  Aim big, miss big."

By that I mean that if you aim at a small spot and refine your concentration to that fine point, you may miss the precise point you're aiming at, but not by much.  You aim for the "x", and miss it but still end up in the ten or nine ring.  You aim at the tuft of hair over the deer's rib, miss it, but still hit the heart/lung area.  You aim at the point where the canopy meets the fuselage and miss it, but hit the pilot, or the engine, or a wing root instead.  That's "aiming small, missing small".

When I aim at that tiny spot, and miss by hitting the pilot, I'm thinking to myself "oops, that was a little behind".  When I hit the engine I'm thinking "oops, a little too much lead".  Mentally, I'm making adjustments so that my next shot is (hopefully) more accurate.  I've settled on my aiming point on fighters because I know I have a tendency to fire a fraction of a second late, which often ends up in a pilot shot.

"Aiming big, missing big" is aiming at the deer itself, and missing it.   It's aiming at the bird, and missing it.  Aiming at the plane, and missing it.

Now, by aiming, I'm saying to look directly at the spot you want to hit, concentrating on it, and firing to hit it.  The sight may be on that point, but it's more likely that it will not be.  If it is, you'll probably miss.  The sight tells you where the bullet will go under certain conditions, and is a valuable tool.  However, on a moving target you'll seldom be able to put it where you want the bullets to strike the target.  You'll need to learn to allow for trajectory, apparent target motion and angle, and time.  You'll need to aim out in front of that moving target to hit it.

The best "trick" for figuring out where to aim in order to hit the target is simply concentration and practice.  Focus hard on the point you want to hit, pay some attention to the gunsight in your peripheral vision, and fire when it feels right.  If you're aiming right, the bullets will go where you're looking, so "aiming" for a specific spot is really all about concentrating on that spot more than putting the gunsight on it.

Look through the sight, focusing on the point you want to hit.  The sight should not really be in focus. 

And actually, once you learn what the sight-picture should look like and have your concentration down, you could probably get rid of the sight entirely and still do just fine.

MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline B-17

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2012, 09:49:57 PM »
Gunning from a bomber? I generally try to hit either middle wing, because that's where the guns generally are, or I go for the fuselage, because that's got engine, oil, radiator, PILOT, and sometimes even guns.

Offline WOZ30BAT

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 91
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 09:20:40 AM »
LOL. On this subject I must ask what size screens or display size are you guys using? I remember years ago someone saying they were aiming for a specific part of the plane & I was felling lucky to just hit anywhere on the airframe while aiming. My desktop I think was a 15" monitor & the laptop I'm on now has a 17" display, & although a little bigger, unless I'm zoomed in for the shot, I cannot even think about hitting a specific area. Plus if I zoom in, it seems like my nose bounce is more pronounced increasing the difficulty.
IN Game: Sidious

Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 09:25:57 AM »
Plus if I zoom in, it seems like my nose bounce is more pronounced increasing the difficulty.

Might want to investigate why your nose is bouncing.  Zooming in won't cause the nose to bounce, it only shows you what your nose bounce is doing to your bullet placement more accurately.  Your nose is always bouncing, you just notice it more when zoomed in.

That said, I always feel lucky to hit anything.

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline B-17

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 09:41:13 AM »
I've got 1280 by 2024 res, and a 19(?) Or 20" screen.

Offline FLS

  • AH Training Corps
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 11617
      • Trainer's Website
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2012, 09:51:01 AM »
unless I'm zoomed in for the shot, I cannot even think about hitting a specific area.

Well there's your problem. Change your thinking and improve your shooting.

Offline Ack-Ack

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 25260
      • FlameWarriors
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2012, 12:09:24 PM »

What about you guys and gals, are you actually capable of aiming for a specific spot on a maneuvering target and hit it with a high chance of success?


Yes.

ack-ack
"If Jesus came back as an airplane, he would be a P-38." - WW2 P-38 pilot
Elite Top Aces +1 Mexican Official Squadron Song

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2012, 08:07:44 PM »
LOL. On this subject I must ask what size screens or display size are you guys using?

I upgraded from a 15" to a 22" about two years ago.  1920x 1080.

The screen size really has nothing to do with your aiming strategy though.  Upgrading had negligible effect on my gunnery.
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline Pand

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
      • Pand's Fighter Wing
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 09:58:38 AM »
To me, I can never really "aim" for a specific part on a fighter plane (note I didn't say bomber), because of their size. I can certainly hit them, but aiming for a specific part, say cockpit or wing tips is almost impossible to me. It seems to me that once you get the whole plane in your gunsights, that's as far as "aiming" goes, from then on, it's just luck (disregard ACM, convergence).

What about you guys and gals, are you actually capable of aiming for a specific spot on a maneuvering target and hit it with a high chance of success? Or are you like me, and just try to keep your target in the sights for as long as possible until your bullets do something?

*This is for fighter planes only, not bombers, due to their size which means accurate/concentrated fire is 100% possible to achieve. 

I'm shooting 50 cals on my P-51, so your results will be different if you're rolling with cannon...

1.  I take aim and execute my shot when I think my bullets are on mark
2.  See the hit sprites (somewhere on the aircraft)
3.  I correct my aim with the hammer down to 'walk' them where I want them on the enemy target

This happens in half a second to a second of time.  Eventually your 'corrections' will be less and less, as you learn where your guns are going to be before you ever fire them.

Regards,

Pandemonium
"HORDE not HOARD. Unless someone has a dragon sitting on top of a bunch of La7s somewhere." -80hd

Offline Owlblink

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 386
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 08:47:18 AM »
LOL. On this subject I must ask what size screens or display size are you guys using? I remember years ago someone saying they were aiming for a specific part of the plane & I was felling lucky to just hit anywhere on the airframe while aiming. My desktop I think was a 15" monitor & the laptop I'm on now has a 17" display, & although a little bigger, unless I'm zoomed in for the shot, I cannot even think about hitting a specific area. Plus if I zoom in, it seems like my nose bounce is more pronounced increasing the difficulty.

I'm still trying to get the aiming down, but I did recently upgrade from a 15" to a 24" monitor; I'm able to see what a plane is doing from further away now (less trouble seeing if the bandit is inverted with nose at me or away) and this has vicariously helped my aiming. However, just lining up a shot in general is all the same.
Kommando Nowotny FSO
80th FS "Headhunters"

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 09:00:34 AM »
I highly doubt anyone in this game aims for specific spots on aircraft, aside from bombers.  I like MtnMan's approach to "aim small miss small".  If you take that line of thought and try to hit a fighter dead center you are giving yourself the highest probability of critically wounding him if you are slightly off the mark.  As for "aiming for a fighter's wing" or some other specific component makes me chuckle a little bit.  I am not saying it is possible to not aim for a specific wing and hit it, but from a probability standpoint, it makes little sense to aim anywhere other than dead center.

Offline B-17

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 09:32:43 AM »
If they're sitting on my 6, I just strafe the whole length of the plane... Slllloooowwwwlllylyyy :devil

Except for 109s. Those things are bloody invincible -.-

Offline Dead Man Flying

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6301
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 12:05:13 PM »
Aiming for a particular spot on another plane is great in theory, but honestly - if you see an opportunity for a hit, you take it.  During scissors or other tight turning fights, the window of opportunity for aiming is extremely narrow.  The idea that you can set up to hit a particular spot just doesn't work in that scenario.  You take what you can take.

Offline skorpion

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3798
Re: Is it aim, luck, or both?
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 12:29:40 PM »
aiming for the wings is a very easy thing to do in fighters, you pop off a burst and off comes the wing. in bombers i always aim for the fuselage, quicker kill and if that doesnt do it, you at least pissed him off and tossed his salad pretty good.