I admit: I used spies...

[SPKmes]

mine can't ... if you can see me...I can not disengage  hahahaha...

[Ardy123]

That's a bit unfair since a duel doesn't really reflect the MA environment, and the Spit V is a beast of a dueling plane.  Under very restricted dueling rules, the Spit V holds serious advantages against K4s, La7s, F4Us, etc.  This is particularly true if you know that the other guy in the F4U is very likely to be dumping speed/dropping flaps/using air brakes to gain quick angles after the merge.  In the MA environment, most of the time you don't know if that guy's gonna hit the brakes or keep on going.

Spits aren't "fairly easy" to fight, but many planes are highly survivable against them.  You might not get a kill against a well-flown Spit in a 109K4 in the MA, but the odds are very unlikely that a co-E or lower E Spit will turn the tables.  The K4 should be able to dictate the fight, put the Spit on the defensive, and egress if necessary.

I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...

* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.

* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.

* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.

[Changeup]

I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...

* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.

* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.

* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.

Ardy,

I agree with everything except the last assessment.  If the Spit driver can get the dash 4 slow he'll own him for one reason:  the 16 can accelerate faster and bring the vertical back into play.  Dash 4 is much too heavy to get vertical quickly once it's slow.  The trick is getting him to commit to getting slow and the good sticks won't do it.

[W7LPNRICK]

   Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........

(Image removed from quote.)

    one of the Few.

[mthrockmor]

Getting a little nostalgic here but espionage is part of the real game. I know during Battle Over Germany I personally used some misinformation tactics. I don't know how well it worked overall though I've always felt Frame 2 worked to a charm. In any case, I just don't see too much of a problem, and it is almost impossible to stop.

For those that get a second account, nothing to do. For those who have buddies in another country and PM them, nothing to do. For those who side switch, 12 hour penalty? Considering the first two are impossible to stop side switchers should either get a 48 hour penalty for being boneheaded enough not to figure out the first two options, or only penalize them like 5 minutes so they can still play.

In any case, meh...

Boo

[Tank-Ace]

NO!!!! Don't abort!!!!

Not that I thought you were going to, but Alot of us (TOTALLY ME) really really want to see your stats.
please dont worry about a bunch of pilots who need to explain away why it is they suck.

I want to see these stats to figure out what I can do about sucking

Really 84, a suckage accusation? I would have expected better from you.I ate spits for breakfast when I bothered to play it smart. But since I was just playing for fun, I always dove fight in, or spent most of my time plinking tanks from 2300yds, like a real man  .

[SectorNine50]

Really 84, a suckage accusation? I would have expected better from you.I ate spits for breakfast when I bothered to play it smart. But since I was just playing for fun, I always dove fight in, or spent most of my time plinking tanks from 2300yds, like a real man  .

Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?

[Karnak]

Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?

It is the common refrain of fans of German equipment.  That was why Lusche said "It's just that I'm somewhat fed up with all that parroted nonsense...", because that is all that it is.  It is pretty much a reflexive comment to anybody who is a fan of German stuff.

[curry1]

   Many squirrels have perished bringing you that information........

(Image removed from quote.)

Many bothans died...

[Butcher]

I disagree with all the evaluations thus far...

* The single most important factor is the initial e states of the two engaging planes, against anyone worth their salt, the initial situation and 'e' states will make all the difference.

* In regards to the 'k4' vs the spit 16/8/9, if they enter at the same 'e' state, given equal sticks, the spit16 will win most of the time. Why? Guns with better trajectory, better turn, very similar climb rate. Furthermore, spit 16 accelerates faster in a dive, and if at merge they are co-e, well then the spit can get the shot off long before the k4 is at a higher e state if the k4 chooses to climb away to bnz.

* The analysis of the spit vs f4u is mostly true, except I would argue a well flown f4u doesn't need to be at the same 'e' state, again because of the guns. I have seen many 'expert' toon pilots in f4us make shots off from 600+ out with 50 cals, so as long as they can get their nose in a position to take a shot they can get you. Also, I would argue that the f4u-4 is the best prop plane in the game and will be able to maintain 'e' with the spits.

One basic way to sum this up it comes down to pilot skill level, one mistake is all that is needed.

[Ardy123]

One basic way to sum this up it comes down to pilot skill level, one mistake is all that is needed.

  or was this a troll attempt?

The best pilot in the world could be caught at a lower 'e' state because he can't control someone coming in above him.

For example, Pilot B gets killed by Pilot A, so knowing pilot A is still there fighting other planes without a possibility of disengaging, pilot B can up again, get above pilot A and fight from an advantaged e state. Infinite lives means infinite opportunities to reset the fight.

Furthermore, despite what some will tell you, the best human minds can only keep track of about 7 different things at once, so the opportunity for the above to happen is a regular occurrence.

[Tank-Ace]

Then why did you complain about them being so "EZ-Mode" if you can kill them so easily?

Because they're easier to fly than a 109 or a 190, and they're easier to fly well in combat. They don't have quite the growth potential that the 109 or 190's do (IMO), but it takes less skill to fly decently in combat.

[Changeup]

Because they're easier to fly than a 109 or a 190, and they're easier to fly well in combat. They don't have quite the growth potential that the 109 or 190's do (IMO), but it takes less skill to fly decently in combat.

I believe that is an accurate depiction of history as well...its why the Germans didn't take England...same pilot in both planes and the Spit wins anyway, more often than not, so why complain about it being and easy ride.  Hell, jump in a Brewster then...that's easier-mode and it is quickly becoming vogue with the base-defenders and it was so crappy we sold them to Wmaker's relatives, they completely remodeled the flight characteristics by removing crappy guns, putting in heavier guns and ammo, removing the pilot armor, removing the heavy CV landing gear and installing toothpicks with tires on them and vwalla!!!  Magic, turny bird with K4 like diving tendencies without the compression!!!  

Complaining about the Spitfires is like complaining about how the war turned out...BTW, have you flown the 51D lately?  And people call the Spit easy-mode, lmao...I guess the a/c designers did their job...easy to fly, responsive, fast and dependable.  Did you really want the allies to have crappy planes? lmao

[Ardy123]

I believe that is an accurate depiction of history as well...its why the Germans didn't take England...same pilot in both planes and the Spit wins anyway, more often than not, so why complain about it being and easy ride.  Hell, jump in a Brewster then...that's easier-mode and it is quickly becoming vogue with the base-defenders and it was so crappy we sold them to Wmaker's relatives, they completely remodeled the flight characteristics by removing crappy guns, putting in heavier guns and ammo, removing the pilot armor, removing the heavy CV landing gear and installing toothpicks with tires on them and vwalla!!!  Magic, turny bird with K4 like diving tendencies without the compression!!!  

Complaining about the Spitfires is like complaining about how the war turned out...BTW, have you flown the 51D lately?  And people call the Spit easy-mode, lmao...I guess the a/c designers did their job...easy to fly, responsive, fast and dependable.  Did you really want the allies to have crappy planes? lmao

Its also very important that in AH we fly planes taken out of their intended context. AH 'war' is all about <15k alt, turny burny, 25mile flights. WW2 had much more challenging contexts to fly in. A spit 16 could not fly from England to Germany and back. Also, the planes were intended to fight different planes... ie an f4u was never designed in mind to fight a spit9 nor was 109 designed to fight a zero etc....

[Changeup]

Its also very important that in AH we fly planes taken out of their intended context. AH 'war' is all about <15k alt, turny burny, 25mile flights. WW2 had much more challenging contexts to fly in. A spit 16 could not fly from England to Germany and back. Also, the planes were intended to fight different planes... ie an f4u was never designed in mind to fight a spit9 nor was 109 designed to fight a zero etc....

Agreed but a plane's performance envelope is its performance envelope...To complain about someone's skill level because they choose to fly a plane with attractive flight attributes is ridiculous.  I submit for discussion that someone who can fly a K4 inside a Spit's flight envelope shouldn't be flying a Spit anyway....because he would kill EVERYTHING in sight!!!!