Rifle caliber armament.

[Tank-Ace]

I've shot down an Il-2 with an SdKfz 251. Granted he was being dumb, but thats not the point. Rather than aiming at the plane as a whole, you need to aim at specific parts. I aimed at the cocpit and tried to get a big long burst in, and what do you know? He was blacking out after 3 passes, and I killed the pilot on 5th.

[230G]

Quite often people don't realize that a .30 caliber gun just can't reach out to 300+ yards range and still be useful.

  Well, maybe in this game. But in reality: Awhile back, I built and set up a target here at the house at which I could shoot my competition rifles for practice. I made it out of 1/4" diamond plate and set it up at 600 yds (That's almost 3/8 of a mile). I first fired at it with my Swiss K-31 rifle and Swiss GP-11 military surplus ammunition. Eight of the first eleven bullets completely PENETRATED the steel! Ballistics of this cartridge are very similar to those of our beloved 30-06 with which our early WW2 planes are armed. FWIW.

  230G

[Guppy35]

A halfway decent example of why the 303s got up gunned to 20mm.  A He-111 that returned to base after a trip to England.  Imagine if those hits had been 50 cal, or 20mm.  That bird isn't there.

If I can find better examples I'll post em, but you get the idea

[230G]

 Wonder why that He-111 has a British roundel on the fuselage? Or did I see that wrong?

  230G

[Oldman731]

You can set 303s to 250-300 yards out, I wouldn't go much beyond 325 unless you have incredible aim. I had no problem dropping a few planes with C202s and Hurri 1s.

I've dropped a few planes with 202s and Hurri Is as well.  While it's possible to get kills at 300 yards, it isn't a wise way to fly or plan with those planes, and the longer convergence setting hurts you at the preferred ranges.

- oldman

[SmokinLoon]

A halfway decent example of why the 303s got up gunned to 20mm.  A He-111 that returned to base after a trip to England.  Imagine if those hits had been 50 cal, or 20mm.  That bird isn't there.

If I can find better examples I'll post em, but you get the idea

(Image removed from quote.)

That is probably the sideways "figure 8" seen on many German planes.  We have a 109 skin with it, I believe.

[Butcher]

I've dropped a few planes with 202s and Hurri Is as well.  While it's possible to get kills at 300 yards, it isn't a wise way to fly or plan with those planes, and the longer convergence setting hurts you at the preferred ranges.

- oldman

300 Yards is about right, for safety I would say 250 if your aim isn't all to good.

[USAF2010]

Personally speaking, I love upping a Spit V just to buzz about killing enemy aircraft with the .303's after expending the 120 20mm. Tons and tons of fun. There's not a whole lot better when you can bait down at 51D, get him in your fight, and just shred him with .303's. I had one such fight where it last near about 5 min just because I was on my last 250-300 rds of .303 and was making sure every shot counted... and they did 

[Butcher]

Personally speaking, I love upping a Spit V just to buzz about killing enemy aircraft with the .303's after expending the 120 20mm. Tons and tons of fun. There's not a whole lot better when you can bait down at 51D, get him in your fight, and just shred him with .303's. I had one such fight where it last near about 5 min just because I was on my last 250-300 rds of .303 and was making sure every shot counted... and they did 

I never cared much for the early Spit/Hurri - but after an early war FSO event I will say its tough getting kills in these early war birds, however its the strategy involved in it - you can'y for example make a snapshot and expect to take a wing off. However straddling behind someone with 8x303s will do quite a bit of damage, just remember that ammo counter goes down in a hurry.

I generally make a good 2 second burst, and watch where the hits land, think I perfected this in the P-38J previous tour, which by far has one of the most deadliest gun packages available. I am still keen towards the Early War birds though, sadly the 38G doesn't impress me because of the bulletproof glass which is a total pain in the butt trying to aim with it.

[Lusche]

Don't forget that it's immensely fun to let your opponents suffer a "death by thousand cuts". 

[Bino]

There is a well-known story about Robert S. Johnson of the 56th FG that illustrates this.  In the Summer of 1943 he flew a P-47 that was riddled with some 20mm cannon and literally hundreds of 7mm rounds, yet he still made it back to England.  Check out Johnson's book, "Thunderbolt!"

I know many were upgunned to deal with armor plate, and larger bombers, and faster aircraft...but I was not looking for the "obvious, MK84's a tard reply"

Maybe I didnt phrase it how I meant. I can't explain it really, but it seems so hard for say a a6m2 (without cannon) to take out a P47 to the point of it being so silly its...well silly).  As in he's stalling on the deck helpless and you're absolutely unloading with so little effect it takes almost your entire clip to take him down.

What I meant was, is that realistic?  I always thought that usually the "shot margin" was very small, and as planes got faster, bigger better armored, it required more weight thrown at the target.  please look at what I'm wondering, not how I say it.

[Saxman]

The slower the aircraft the more effective the smaller caliber of weapons are.  The more "time on target" available the easier it is to be effective with the smaller calibers.  The "Oscar", Brewster Buffalo, P40B/C, Spitfires, Hurricanes, and a whole host of other pre-war and early war aircraft did just fine with .30 calibers.

   

Our Brewster has 4x.50cal or 3x.50cal + 1x.30cal, so its firepower is more appropriately compared to the FM-1 (F4F-4 with four gun package) FM-2 and P-51B.

[SmokinLoon]

Our Brewster has 4x.50cal or 3x.50cal + 1x.30cal, so its firepower is more appropriately compared to the FM-1 (F4F-4 with four gun package) FM-2 and P-51B.

I'm well aware of what model the AH version of the Buffalo has.  It is not representative to what was present in the pre-war or early war settings, at least in the PTO.  Depending on which variant in question, it appears there were dual .30 cals, or quad .30 cals, or 2/.30's and 2/.50's, etc. etc.  The comparison of the EW Brewsters is more for speed and maneuverability purposes, really.  But in firepower, they are still in the same class.   

[BravoT]

I've shot down an Il-2 with an SdKfz 251. Granted he was being dumb, but thats not the point. Rather than aiming at the plane as a whole, you need to aim at specific parts. I aimed at the cocpit and tried to get a big long burst in, and what do you know? He was blacking out after 3 passes, and I killed the pilot on 5th.

Did the same recently with the coax on a Panzer IV.  He came in dumb, I opened up at D1000, and gave him a face full of coax BBs right in the prop spinner.

IL2 go boom.

[tmetal]

In real life pilots would try to rtb after taking critical damage like a fuel or oil hit or losing a control surface; rifle caliber rounds were more than capable of causing this kind of damage.  In AH people will stay in a fight until they are blown from the sky (especially in the MAs); which rifle caliber rounds are not as capable of doing as HMG rounds or canon rounds. That is the simple difference that most players seem to not realize. An under rated ride in AH doesn't always translate into an under rated ride during its time in WWII.


Planes armed with rifle caliber guns are included in AH not because they are the best choice when flying in the LWMA, but because they are historically significant and see good use in arenas other than the LWMA.