Pros and Cons on the 12 Hour Horse

[DrBone1]

You added zero value...

Like you Gents add anything? Nothing but whines on my screen in this thread what did you add again? 

[Daddkev]

  2 hours Im Naked!!!!!

[Changeup]

Like you Gents add anything? Nothing but whines on my screen in this thread what did you add again? 

A thread that separates the for and against the 12 hour switch so the people that visit the forum can see the reasons why both sides want what they want.  Included in such might be reasons to make a change or change nothing.  That would be up to the people that run this place.

Seems to me thats more than your tiny, baby-hand, fist shake at other peoples opinion.  Again, you managed to add zippo to the discussion.  You might want to send in one of your smarter minions to do the heavier mental lifting for you.  Just saying....friends?

[dedalos]

Just devil's advocating here a bit, suppose you're on one country and see a carrier group horde from your side rolling a barely defended base.  You switch to the defending side because it looks like a fun fight to have from that side.  Reasonable?  It's one reason I'd switch.

What if just before you switched, you happened to see a knot of C47s flying by the CV on their way to the base, headed toward the base being attacked from the south?  Are you justified in upping from that base and heading south to intercept them?  Are you morally obligated NOT to head south because of your prior knowledge of what is coming?  Should you engage in that fight at all knowing what you know?

How on earth do you enforce rulings on whether people used knowledge from their previous country, compared to fortuitous circumstances?

Wiley.

Well, I can do that right now can't I?  It is a question of how often.  The only way to defend against this is by never switching and no coms between countries.  HT would have to block ventrilo and all other com software.  In the end, nothing would work since a spy would have a second account anyway.  So, you can protect against accidental things like you mentioned but against the intentional.  And again, if that is behavior HT does not want, find the offenders and punish them.  I know it is easier to place a restriction but . .  . .

[Debrody]

Like you Gents add anything? Nothing but whines on my screen in this thread what did you add again? 

i was thinking about something but just dont wanna offend the vDUDES by throwing out your name in their uniform.

[SunBat]

Trying to legislate morality is stupid and futile.

Edit: That's the best reason for no oppresively long waiting times.  It so good no other reasons are needed.

[SPKmes]

I would be on the against 12 hr ...basically due to lack of enticement for me sometimes...I was never a big side switcher but when things are quiet on my main side and the green dar out ways the the red ( inadvertantly the chess piece I was given my very first day)I do like to change... since the change I think I have changed once to fight the higher numbers but I wasn't planning on meeting up with any of the others I fly with later....Which is another reason I am against the 12 hour...if we do change usless we (guys I fly with) change at the same time the large amount of time between the changes is difficult to sync up with others...if you only do a few hours per day that is...

it all goes round and round and some weeks there is absolutely no reason to change as there are big red dars on both fronts and I can keep myself occupied for hours...but as of the past week I pretty much run a couple of sorties and log .... I consider changing but then think ...meh....

but this is usually in a very quiet game time so it is a problem that is more pronounced due to lower numbers and limited gameplay...especially on the bigger maps

[Wiley]

Well, I can do that right now can't I?  It is a question of how often.

Yep.  And they've chosen to draw their line in the sand at 12 hours.  I disagree with it, 2 would seem to me sufficient because the leadup to most missions and the mission itself rarely lasts beyond that, and the ones that are longer are usually looking for opposition anyways.

  The only way to defend against this is by never switching and no coms between countries.  HT would have to block ventrilo and all other com software.

Not to mention phones, second PCs in the house, morse code, etc etc.  Point being, it's impossible to stop a dedicated cheater.

  In the end, nothing would work since a spy would have a second account anyway.  So, you can protect against accidental things like you mentioned but against the intentional.  And again, if that is behavior HT does not want, find the offenders and punish them.  I know it is easier to place a restriction but . .  . .

It is not 'easier', it is about the only practical option if you're going to attempt to put some kind of control on it.

A time limit doesn't stop the truly dedicated cheater, but it does put a cramp on the 'casual cheater' who can only do it once every 12 hours under the current system.  This is of course assuming he is friendless and doesn't have the cash for account #2.

I see Sunbat is still a freaking genius as well.

Wiley.

[JUGgler]

Just devil's advocating here a bit, suppose you're on one country and see a carrier group horde from your side rolling a barely defended base.  You switch to the defending side because it looks like a fun fight to have from that side.  Reasonable?  It's one reason I'd switch.

What if just before you switched, you happened to see a knot of C47s flying by the CV on their way to the base, headed toward the base being attacked from the south?  Are you justified in upping from that base and heading south to intercept them?  Are you morally obligated NOT to head south because of your prior knowledge of what is coming?  Should you engage in that fight at all knowing what you know?

How on earth do you enforce rulings on whether people used knowledge from their previous country, compared to fortuitous circumstances?

Here's an example:  Last night I was headed to a base to defend it from a horde that had been at it for a while.  I figured I would go goon hunting, half expecting to be too late, but figured 'why not?'  On my way there, I got engaged with another P47 and wound up having a duel with him which I won by a slim margin.  Down 3 guns, I actually started to turn back and realized I still had enough control surfaces to take out a goon if need be.

I made it to the town, and through miraculous fluke got there just in time to intersect the goon's flight path just as he began to drop.  Due to my awesome gunnery skills, he survived my first pass just as he was dropping, and I turned back and managed to shoot down a few troops in their chutes and kill the goon.

With that situation, what if I had just switched over from that side and run that sortie?  How would someone watching that from the server be able to distinguish that from a guy who had seen the goon take off from the tower and was headed there to intercept it?

Wiley.

I might have $45 to burn per month, I could have JUGgler, JUGgler1 and JUGgler2. Cover all 3 countries, would this be ok? I bet HiTech wouldn't mind  

Making opressive rules out of fear that someone will use their freedom to be a sweetheart is silly and unrealistic.

1-2 hour switch time standard, then charge 200 perks to switch at will. seems easy to me. Who will pay 200 perks just to kill a few goons they see from the tower of a CV?

JUGgler

[guncrasher]

pros/cons of changing time limit.  Idea of spies is dumb not even gonna discuss it as all you have to do is tell your buddy about it without switching.

pro:  some people will switch to balance the game.  if one country has lower players.
pro:  if enough switch i can fly my ponyd all the time.

cons:  people will not necessarily switch to balance the game, but will switch to find "fights"  according to their own idea of the game. so they may not switch to the
         country with lower number.  they may actually switch to the one with higher number if they believe it's a "better" fight.
cons: even more people will switch to roll from horde to horde than to balance the game or find a "fight" as it happened before.
cons: when we had a 1 hr time limit countries were not balanced.  actually they had a bigger imbalance more often than right now.
cons:  It is annoying as hell for me to be helping some player only to see him switch countries come back and kill me as I rtb damaged and low fuel/ammo.

while some of you guys do switch to balance the game not enough switch to balance the game.  more switch to find their kind of "fight" but even more will swith to flying from horde to horde.


semp

[Wiley]

pros/cons of changing time limit.  Idea of spies is dumb not even gonna discuss it as all you have to do is tell your buddy about it without switching.

pro:  some people will switch to balance the game.  if one country has lower players.
pro:  if enough switch i can fly my ponyd all the time.

cons:  people will not necessarily switch to balance the game, but will switch to find "fights"  according to their own idea of the game. so they may not switch to the
         country with lower number.  they may actually switch to the one with higher number if they believe it's a "better" fight.
cons: even more people will switch to roll from horde to horde than to balance the game or find a "fight" as it happened before.
cons: when we had a 1 hr time limit countries were not balanced.  actually they had a bigger imbalance more often than right now.
cons:  It is annoying as hell for me to be helping some player only to see him switch countries come back and kill me as I rtb damaged and low fuel/ammo.

while some of you guys do switch to balance the game not enough switch to balance the game.  more switch to find their kind of "fight" but even more will swith to flying from horde to horde.


semp

For the vast majority of the 2 short years I've been here, switch time was 2(? or 3?) hours.  It's my perception that imbalances have gotten worse since they went to 12 hours, particularly lately.  Confirmation bias?  Slight chance, although that's something I think about a lot so I would like to think not.

Wiley.

[JUGgler]

It's quite simple for me, these days I don't play as much, I haven't the luxury to just pop in each night for a hour or 2. When I play these days I have usualy finished some project or set asside some time specifically for AH, sometimes a couple hours sometimes (if I've sufficiently scared off the wife and daughters) 3 to maybe even 6 hours. Within 3-6 hours the "horde flux" can be drastic and it can get quite boring after a short while, which makes me think of doing other projects that need doing like painting, sheetrock etc etc, and that is just not cool when the girls are gone!  


It just came to mind instead of a timed country switch, how about a # of switches per day, say 2-3 and no more. Once you've used your limit you must wait 24 hours?




JUGgler

[Shane]

I think 1 or 2 hours is reasonable.

[Guppy35]

Just devil's advocating here a bit, suppose you're on one country and see a carrier group horde from your side rolling a barely defended base.  You switch to the defending side because it looks like a fun fight to have from that side.  Reasonable?  It's one reason I'd switch.

What if just before you switched, you happened to see a knot of C47s flying by the CV on their way to the base, headed toward the base being attacked from the south?  Are you justified in upping from that base and heading south to intercept them?  Are you morally obligated NOT to head south because of your prior knowledge of what is coming?  Should you engage in that fight at all knowing what you know?

How on earth do you enforce rulings on whether people used knowledge from their previous country, compared to fortuitous circumstances?

Here's an example:  Last night I was headed to a base to defend it from a horde that had been at it for a while.  I figured I would go goon hunting, half expecting to be too late, but figured 'why not?'  On my way there, I got engaged with another P47 and wound up having a duel with him which I won by a slim margin.  Down 3 guns, I actually started to turn back and realized I still had enough control surfaces to take out a goon if need be.

I made it to the town, and through miraculous fluke got there just in time to intersect the goon's flight path just as he began to drop.  Due to my awesome gunnery skills, he survived my first pass just as he was dropping, and I turned back and managed to shoot down a few troops in their chutes and kill the goon.

With that situation, what if I had just switched over from that side and run that sortie?  How would someone watching that from the server be able to distinguish that from a guy who had seen the goon take off from the tower and was headed there to intercept it?

Wiley.

So the question becomes do you believe that there are that many players, so pathetic and desperate to win a cartoon game that stopping them with the 12 hour rule is important?  Or do you believe that there are more players that switch for the sake of the fight and 12 hours just prevents that?

I'm in the latter category

[Wiley]

So the question becomes do you believe that there are that many players, so pathetic and desperate to win a cartoon game that stopping them with the 12 hour rule is important?  Or do you believe that there are more players that switch for the sake of the fight and 12 hours just prevents that?

I'm in the latter category

Myself?  No.  I personally think the amount of paranoia about side switchers gaining advantage is orders of magnitude higher than the actual instances of side switching to gain advantage.  I also believe some measure needs to be in place to placate the paranoid people, because they pay their $15, they demand some kind of security against the big bad side switchers.

I personally would like 1 hour between switches, but I believe a practical compromise is 2 to give the alleged 'cheaters' less frequency where they can do whatever they're supposedly doing.

Although, reading this thread another thought occurs to me.  What if HTC's main reason for limiting side switching has little to do with cheating, and is actually for some other reason?  I can't think of a logical reason offhand though.

Wiley.