Randomness of the Tater

[VonMessa]

Autocad 2011 :drool: 

Faster than my Solidwork for some things

[Seanaldinho]

Faster than my Solidwork for some things

Well im running on a free copy of 2007 so im not complaining just fantasizing lol

Gonna start using Inventor next year

[oakranger]

It should be an all but a one-shot kill weapon.  Perhaps not because of the impact of the round directly all of the time, but certainly on the next high-g maneuver that the receiver of the 30mm makes, especially if the shot landed on a critical airframe component such as a wing root.  The airframe should be stressed and damaged enough that the affected parts should rip off if the pilot pulls any moves with high G.

  Most fighters (note that I do not say bombers) should take heavy enough damage from a 30mm or two to render them unable to do anything but limp home, not being able to continue a protracted, high maneuvering dogfight, climb, dive, etc. without tearing something important off.

(Image removed from quote.)

This that tater a 20 mm, 30mm, 37 mm or far fetch 50 or more mm?

[bustr]

Since the Mk108 rounds fired are 1 tracer in 3, is it possible the fuze is modeled to surface premature detonate and cavety delayed detonate as happened in the war? Add to this the damage requirements of the modeling for the various parts of each aircrft, maybe it now takes more than a single Mk108 some percentage of the time. You may notice it looks like the number of wide dispersion flyers seem to have been increased.

I'm amazed spin delayed self destruct fuzes are not modeled. I read an after action report of pilots lobbing Mk108 rounds at longer distance to try and take advatage of the self destruct fuze and airburst them near bombers. The self destruct fuze works by the slowing down of the round's spin which engages the striker after about 1000 meters. Woudn't want to go kiling your own civilians after missing the bombers dropping bombs on them.

Mini 88's......

[Charge]

I'm somewhat skeptical about pilots relying on self-destruct fuses to provide damage to nearby bombers as the actual principle why HE or rather MG was so efficient was the pressure effect, not shrapnel. I'd say that that kind of observation was probably just an indication of German pilots firing too far away, especially if they were firing MK108s, not MK103s, and that does not surprise me at all as it was quite common. That was probably part of why the hit percentage was deemed as low as 2% for interceptors.

It would be cool to have self destruct blasts, though. They have these modeled in WW2OL and they are kinda cool but you only hear them if you happen to be close enough when they go off. Just candy, but cool.

-C+

[bustr]

85 grams of HA41 (Hexogen Aluminium) going off next to a fuel leak at over 1000F might do some damage. The steel casing whizzing around might also. The Stielhandgranate 24 stick grenade had 170 grams of TNT. TNT was not as powerful or thermogenic as HA41 and TNT was the benchmark for explosives. The aluminium in HA41 creates the high temperatures with the blast. HA41 is 1.4-2 times as powerful as TNT based on composition.

The 3 cm Minengeschoss 108 with 85 grams of HA41 was equivalent to the Stielhandgranate 24 in blast capacity but in a container 1/2 the size. Wonder what the detonation would do 3 feet from the plane?

[Ardy123]

85 grams of HA41 (Hexogen Aluminium) going off next to a fuel leak at over 1000F might do some damage. The steel casing whizzing around might also. The Stielhandgranate 24 stick grenade had 170 grams of TNT. TNT was not as powerful or thermogenic as HA41 and TNT was the benchmark for explosives. The aluminium in HA41 creates the high temperatures with the blast. HA41 is 1.4-2 times as powerful as TNT based on composition.

The 3 cm Minengeschoss 108 with 85 grams of HA41 was equivalent to the Stielhandgranate 24 in blast capacity but in a container 1/2 the size. Wonder what the detonation would do 3 feet from the plane?

In RL once a projectile slows down to a certain speed, they will tumble and not 'fly' correctly, is this modeled in AH?

My understanding is that the huge numbers of bombers combined with interceptors often being flown by pilots with little experience probably resulted in people pulling the trigger from 1000 yrds out or greater, esp when you take into account that the most common attack was a frontal attack where the closing speeds could be above 600 mph (200ish bombers, 300-400ish fighters).

[PR3D4TOR]

I don't find this tactic unbelievable. The Germans had "mini-flak" rounds in as small a caliber as 7.92mm for the defensive guns of their bombers. The reasoning was that even if the tiny puffy ack was mostly harmless it was scary and distracting to an attacking fighter pilot. The 210 mm rocket mortars they used on bomber formations were also designed to break up the defensive formations rather than just the off-chance direct hit. German fighter pilots were actually given more points towards decorations for making a bomber break formation than for the actual kill.

[Babalonian]

I think there is a myth out there that a 30mm tater is almost a one shot one kill weapon, and although very powerful it certainly is not.

Fixt.  Can we help it if one word gets left out from time to time?


Also, to add, many many many times that you think you just got 1-shot by an enemy tater and sent to the tower because of one bullet, you really absorbed more than a 1-shot burst (although it is debatable if the first shot you recieved from that burst was enough).  I would put my average at about 3-5 tater strikes per fighter kill when I do make the kill with a tater burst, and I try to be conservative with them and use very brief bursts.

[ink]

Fixt.  Can we help it if one word gets left out from time to time?


Also, to add, many many many times that you think you just got 1-shot by an enemy tater and sent to the tower because of one bullet, you really absorbed more than a 1-shot burst (although it is debatable if the first shot you recieved from that burst was enough).  I would put my average at about 3-5 tater strikes per fighter kill when I do make the kill with a tater burst, and I try to be conservative with them and use very brief bursts.

I find that works the best for me, a quick squeeze and a couple taters = a dead fighter....just wish I could aim the suker 

[VonMessa]

I don't find this tactic unbelievable. The Germans had "mini-flak" rounds in as small a caliber as 7.92mm for the defensive guns of their bombers. The reasoning was that even if the tiny puffy ack was mostly harmless it was scary and distracting to an attacking fighter pilot. The 210 mm rocket mortars they used on bomber formations were also designed to break up the defensive formations rather than just the off-chance direct hit. German fighter pilots were actually given more points towards decorations for making a bomber break formation than for the actual kill.

Source, bitte?

[Krupinski]

Source, bitte?

x2

[titanic3]

Another target which I found pretty damn tough to the tater. Dove on a formation of Arados, I was barely able to catch them so I was sitting d600 off taking my time but it's hard to aim at that range. 4 tater splashes spread across the entire plane's width. The lead plane lost both engines but still kept flying. I switched to the drones, blew one up with a lucky tater, went to the second drone, again, it took 4-5 taters and lost both engines. I put one more round in for a total of 5-6 taters, and his wing came off.

The whole time, I got sprayed by the 20mm and one golden bullet took out my engine. I went home with 2 kills and the Arado managed to land a few minutes after. Pretty damn tough for a small jet bomber.

[bangsbox]

Another target which I found pretty damn tough to the tater. Dove on a formation of Arados, I was barely able to catch them so I was sitting d600 off taking my time but it's hard to aim at that range. 4 tater splashes spread across the entire plane's width. The lead plane lost both engines but still kept flying. I switched to the drones, blew one up with a lucky tater, went to the second drone, again, it took 4-5 taters and lost both engines. I put one more round in for a total of 5-6 taters, and his wing came off.

The whole time, I got sprayed by the 20mm and one golden bullet took out my engine. I went home with 2 kills and the Arado managed to land a few minutes after. Pretty damn tough for a small jet bomber.

arado is very tough in this game almost b17 tough

[Charge]

The feature of rapid pressure build-up of such HE is that it effectively takes out the confined space where it explodes and it is possible that it is only a flap of control surface, which is fortunate for the target as it would take out a wing or fuselage just the same. It is also possible that it hits the engine and it will take it out, but I'd say it is not able to "explode" it. The effect is much more radical in a wing or fuselage and even more so if some fuel gets into "mixture".

I consider a real "flak" round to be a grenade which has a fuse that has and adjustable setting so that it can be made to burst near the target aircraft (this excludes 20mm rounds which were used in light flak cannons but had only non-adjustable fuses). I consider this observation of "flak rounds" to be merely an observation of normal 20mm and 30mm rounds going off in the vicinity of bombers and I'd say they saw these many many times. Even a single 190A8 firing from 1k out would produce hundreds of these small self-destruct blasts for tail gunner's enjoyment but they cannot be considered as "flak" IMO. Also a normal flak round relies very much on shrapnel effect since pressure effect simply does not work well unless it is in confined space and this also works as a distinction between rounds fired from ground against aircraft to rounds fired AtA where rounds are to hit the target and not just explode in the vicinity as in real "flak".

-C+