Yak-9UT, Was this in enough numbers to qualify for AH

[Tilt]

People were also shot for incompetence of command. Best to pad the scores a little...

Thats just a "clever" statement that adds nothing to the debate........... simply BS.

[PR3D4TOR]

No different than your last post sir.

[Krusty]

Actually that is not correct.......... any more than any other nation. Of course there were "inaccuracies" but false claims were very seriously penalised. Whilst the propaganda machine did its thing with the populace the official VVS record was as accurate as the fog of war allowed. Folk were executed for inaccurate reporting!

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. A number of authors have looked into it and Soviet claims were mostly ficticious. I'm not saynig they didn't get kills (so many of them, some quite skilled aces!) but the official reports on anything Soviet-era are almost certainly propoganda fabrications. This stretches from before their involvement in the war to well into the cold war era. It's a constant thread and as much as there is inherrent inaccuracy amongst all nations, the Soviets create and foster an entire system that perpetuates several times the exaggeration that any other nation has ever had.

They had political officers waiting for the planes to land and they would jump out and literally badger pilots to report kills instantly before they've had time to step off the plane. Fear, intimidation, the need for kill claims no matter what the truth -- it led to an entire system of corrup kill claiming. This is in general, mind you. I'm not singling out any particular ace, and no doubt many did not do this if they were already capable of getting the kills on their own.

On the other hand, you then have other pilots that made up tallies to save their skin from secret police taking them away in the night.

[Peyton]

Oh is that why the perhaps rarest late-war monster, the Ta 152, is perk-free while the mass-produced Spit XIV is perked? lol

Perking is purely for game-balancing. History is not a factor at all.

+1 UNPERK THE Spit XIV !!!!

[AWwrgwy]

I'm sorry, but you're wrong. A number of authors have looked into it and Soviet claims were mostly ficticious. I'm not saynig they didn't get kills (so many of them, some quite skilled aces!) but the official reports on anything Soviet-era are almost certainly propoganda fabrications. This stretches from before their involvement in the war to well into the cold war era. It's a constant thread and as much as there is inherrent inaccuracy amongst all nations, the Soviets create and foster an entire system that perpetuates several times the exaggeration that any other nation has ever had.

They had political officers waiting for the planes to land and they would jump out and literally badger pilots to report kills instantly before they've had time to step off the plane. Fear, intimidation, the need for kill claims no matter what the truth -- it led to an entire system of corrup kill claiming. This is in general, mind you. I'm not singling out any particular ace, and no doubt many did not do this if they were already capable of getting the kills on their own.

On the other hand, you then have other pilots that made up tallies to save their skin from secret police taking them away in the night.

Actually, from my reading, almost the opposite is true. They needed physical proof of their kills as most were over their own front lines. I believe they received a "stipend" for kills as well.

I've read of pilots going to the front lines to find wreckage of their kills.

I suppose it depends on who the claims are coming from, the pilots or the political officers.

The only info on 3 cannon Yak9's I've ever seen was regarding, I beleive, the Yak9P and it was that it did not see service in WWII. I always assumed the UT was just an experiment in "universal" armament as all other attemts to mount three cannon in the nose of Yak9's were deemed failures.

wrongway

[Krusty]

Actually, from my reading, almost the opposite is true. They needed physical proof of their kills as most were over their own front lines. I believe they received a "stipend" for kills as well.

I've read of pilots going to the front lines to find wreckage of their kills.

I suppose it depends on who the claims are coming from, the pilots or the political officers.

There's the ideal, the guidelines written down, and then there's "Whatever Stalin wants to hear, TELL HIM"

I have no doubt that at some point they laid those guidelines down, but I know for certain they did not follow them. Many nations had strict rules for kill claim verification, but in reality it always was easier to overclaim. The main difference was most other nations didn't do it on purpose.

[lmxar]

Not trying to get involved in a pissing contest, but if you are going to try to argue to negate a plane's ability to be added because you don't trust the credibility of the claimed victories, then it simply sounds like you don't want the plane added and you are looking for excuses.  If you refuse to accept a historical report somebody finds, it seems base to do so on the grounds of simply distrusting an entire nation's victory report system.  By your argument, we shouldn't add any other USSR planes.

[AWwrgwy]

Not trying to get involved in a pissing contest, but if you are going to try to argue to negate a plane's ability to be added because you don't trust the credibility of the claimed victories, then it simply sounds like you don't want the plane added and you are looking for excuses.  If you refuse to accept a historical report somebody finds, it seems base to do so on the grounds of simply distrusting an entire nation's victory report system.  By your argument, we shouldn't add any other USSR planes.

I see it as another "add the P-63" type situation RE: Combat use and a "add the 4-20mm P-51A" type wish at worst.

Just looking for another "uber" ride that possibly didn't see combat at all and if it did, may have been quite limited.

Then, on the other hand, I look at the history of the P-47M and think, "ehh". At least the M-Jug is well documented.



wrongway

[lmxar]

I see it as another "add the P-63" type situation RE: Combat use and a "add the 4-20mm P-51A" type wish at worst.

Just looking for another "uber" ride that possibly didn't see combat at all and if it did, may have been quite limited.

Then, on the other hand, I look at the history of the P-47M and think, "ehh". At least the M-Jug is well documented.



wrongway

Sooooo the Ta152?  And I doubt that the Yak9UT would be a "uber ride."  It will definitely increase the numbers of players flying the Yak9.  The LA7 has 3 20mm's and is faster.  I am not suggesting anything like the P63 or a 4X20mm P51.  But for the most part, the only USSR plane people fly is the LA7.  This would be a relatively simple addition of a new aircraft using the same airframe and a new cannon and package. 

[Ruah]

I would be happy with the yak-9U interior being remodeled. . .that would be nice

[save]

Actually the Ta 152 was originally perked ............ but it sorta proves predators point. It was deperked as it was not going to distort game play.............

However I am sure you can equally quote Pyro's once stated intention to perk certain ordinance loadouts where they were considered rare.

This of course is yet to happen however some COAD was added long ago that would enable it.............

They unperked the 152 only after they remodelled it, before update you could outrun a P51 at most altitudes, after the update it is a more unstable plane that is considerably slower at lower altitude.

 

[Ruah]

I have read through some japanese accounts in Machuria, and they speak multi cannoned Yaks. . . but then again the info is sketchy.

Ultimatly, people will cry about a yak that had 2 cannon or 3 cannon even if its not a great round.

[Butcher]

I have read through some japanese accounts in Machuria, and they speak multi cannoned Yaks. . . but then again the info is sketchy.

Can you provide any sources on this? Quite curious which if any late war rides were sent to the East.

[lyric1]

Can you provide any sources on this? Quite curious which if any late war rides were sent to the East.

IL-10 did for a fact.

[Karnak]

They unperked the 152 only after they remodelled it, before update you could outrun a P51 at most altitudes, after the update it is a more unstable plane that is considerably slower at lower altitude.

 

There was no FM change when the Ta152 was remodeled.  It flies exactly the same as it ever did.  It was unperked because of its extremely low usage as a perk plane and HTC deciding it would not unbalance the MA if it were free.  A unit being perked or not has nothing to do with historical rarity and everything to do with how it affects the MA.