Yak-9UT, Was this in enough numbers to qualify for AH

[Ack-Ack]

I wonder if russian pride in thier own planes caused them to not use the later high performance planes lended to them.

Who needed a p63 if they had La5FN, LA7....Yak9, yak3....etc.

Because most Lend-Lease fighters we sent to the Soviets didn't meet their needs for their type of air war. 

ack-ack

[lyric1]

How do you know he wasn't talking about regular Yak-9T? 9T was more difficult to handle than 9.

---

In the interview:
 

I stand corrected he did fly the 9T.

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/pilots/tikhomirov/tikhomirov.htm

[Tilt]

My reading shows a batch of some 200+ Yak9UT placed into produced March/April 45 (its not clear if it was finalised end March or end April) which would only IMO have seen proper frontline duty in Manchuria. However this batch featured the NS23 hub cannon and two B20 over engine mounted cannons. No special modifications were required so in effect these were "standard" Yak9U's with non standard gun packages added under production.


It did not have the NS37  (which featured during initial trials) as the NS23 and 2 x B20 could be added without need for modification. (NS37 was latterly put into limited production with only one accompanying B20 cannon)

The NS23 is not currently modelled in AH. The cannon is lighter than the YVA by some 30kg [37kg v 68kg] but the round is quite different and the muzzel vel. not as high as that gained from the YVA (660m/s as opposed to ~900m/s).

Having said that the total weight of fire (23mm+ 2 x 20mm) is considerable in Yak terms. I think some corroborative data regarding the deployment of the Yak9UT (23mm) would be required before taking the loadout as applicable for AH and I would agree that it should be a perk option as it would be rarer than the  3x B20 La7 currently in game.

[PR3D4TOR]

Perking has nothing to do with how rare a plane or loadout was historically. Perking is only used to balance plane/vehicle usage. I don't think a three-cannon Yak will become a pre-perk F4U-1C.

[Krusty]

Um... actually... Perks are there to regulate rare planes so that they don't flood the arenas in ways never seen in WW2... That perk system was extended to include over powered craft that destabilized the balance as well.

Yes, perks are for rare planes.

EDIT: Not to mention the HTC comments about adding a perked weapons loadout for unperked planes, for the rare weapons loadouts.

[PR3D4TOR]

Oh is that why the perhaps rarest late-war monster, the Ta 152, is perk-free while the mass-produced Spit XIV is perked? lol

Perking is purely for game-balancing. History is not a factor at all.

Just to clear up a few things about this upcoming system.  

It is not meant to be something that only elite pilots can get.  That's not the point at all.  If you fly like you do now, you will eventually accumulate enough points to get a perk plane.  Most planes you will be able to fly all you want, so it's not like you'll end up gettting stuck with lousy planes if you don't have any points.

This system does a few things for us.  First it allows us to introduce planes that we otherwise would not be able to include because they would upset play balance.  It also helps balance out plane selection and brings more diversity since people can get more points by flying less capable planes.  Last, it gives players a tangible reward for their efforts.  

You do not need to be a top pilot or fly mega hours each week to achieve a perk.  Flying more will let you achieve it in a shorter amount of real time, but you'll still have to spend the same amount of in-game time.

This is a purely a game system for the main arena.  How a plane gets classified only has to do with how it affects the main arena, not with how it served historically.

This system will also be used in bombers and vehicles.  A B-29 and Tiger II would be examples of what we could add as perks there.



------------------
Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Tilt]

Actually the Ta 152 was originally perked ............ but it sorta proves predators point. It was deperked as it was not going to distort game play.............

However I am sure you can equally quote Pyro's once stated intention to perk certain ordinance loadouts where they were considered rare.

This of course is yet to happen however some COAD was added long ago that would enable it.............

[PR3D4TOR]

I find it far more likely that they will perk loadouts that make an aircraft unduly popular in the jabo or bomber role, instead of perking the whole plane. That means you can fly the plane for free as long as you don't select the gun package or ord that makes it uber.

[Krusty]

You are confusing the why of the perk. The "why" is to prevent rare over-powered craft from taking over the arena at the expense of more common aircraft that are more representative of WW2. The Ta152 had its perk removed because before AH2 it was no real threat, and after AH2 it's been destabilized to the point that nobody wants to fly it even if the perk price is removed. You should understand that the perk price was there to correct a potential worry. That worry never manifested itself for specific reasons. The Ta152 is the exception to the rule in this regard.

The perked loadout was intended to remove the C-hog from the game entirely, have the F4U-1D instead have a perked 4x20mm gun option. It has other potential, but in this case it was actually there to remove a perk plane from the hangar list while still keeping the same option.

You are wrong though that it has nothing to do with history or rarity of the airframe. Some of us have been following this game and these forums for over 10 years now. You have much to learn.

[PR3D4TOR]

Oooh the "I've been here longer than you" card! 

I first joined up in 2002 as Lysander. Been playing on and off for ten years now. I'm currently "off" until summer at least. Except for the C-Hog and 163, none of the perked planes were rare, but all the perked planes share a common trait... They are unbalancing.

No offence, but I'll take Pyro's word over yours.

Some more quotes:

Kidding aside, perk ordnance is what it sounds like- the ability to charge perks for specific ordnance loadouts.  It means that instead of having the 1C as a separate plane, I can just make 20mm cannons a perked loadout on the 1D and save space.  Beyond that, we could offer up some more exotic weapon choices without fear of them overrunning the arenas or having to add separate planes to do them.  57mm on your Mossie, Tiny Tims on your Corsair, whatever.  We're not going to do nukes so forget about that.  I don't know when this will be done so don't ask.

The perk/ENY system clearly has no basis in history.

To which HiTech responded:

Who ever gave the slightest hint that it ever did?

As far as social engineering goes, what do you think online game design is all about?

[Tilt]

Perks to one side.............

Having done a quick trawl I cnat find anything that puts Yak9UT's in Manchuria. 300 IAP had "Yak9T's" which destroyed several locomotives (with HE rounds?) and 147& 554 IAP had Yak9's which may have been U's (but this is speculation)

Interestingly no Yak3's are listed but at least two regiments of La7 of which the skinning community has many a 3 cannon version. Several P63 & P39 regiments and many a Tu-2 & Pe2  regiment. Not to mention one torpedo equipped A20 regiment. ooops!

As per above there is a repeated deployment reference  that a single Yak9UT regiment flew over berlin at the wars end "destroying 27 FW190's and 1 bf109" (amazed a single regiment could find 27x FW190's in the last week of the war!)

There seems to be some confusion as to whether Yak9UT's were with the Yak9U's in 151GIAP over Czechoslovakia in May 45....even some confusion as to whether 151GIAP had Yak3's or Yak9U's.

Another claim is that there were Yak9UT's with the 12 IAP Baltic fleet in May 45 (red 37 below) however it could again be a confusion with the Yak9U.



all very uncertain.

[Krusty]

Predator, you act like a 2-weeker sometimes and your info is way off on others.

What do you think "exotic" means? Rare. Scarce. The weapons that were rarely used and would be over-powering. As I said the perk system was implemented (from HTC's own words, even on the main webpage) to limit the rare weapons to prevent a side-effect of unbalancing the gameplay.


Tilt: Locomotives could be taken out with .50cal even, or HE 20mm rounds, and a 37mm round? Much stronger. I have no doubts. It's not rolled armored steel. It's pig iron. Okay, not really, but still! It's brittle. It's under pressure. All you had to do was crack it or pop the rivets enough for the boiler to blow. It was quite common.

As for 27 FWs, well on the one hand if you WERE to find them, they would be over the heart of Berlin, now? Then again, you have to question the legitimacy of any Soviet kill claims, as they were badgered and co-erced into exaggerating claims so that the propoganda machine could feed Communist lies to appease the masses. The Soviets have by far the worst morals in regards to reporting, recording, and checking on actual kills. It doesn't matter to them, it was just something to make them look good. Even as early as Barbarossa, Soviet pilots were caught (by Germans!) flying around when they thought they were alone, performing acrobatics and firing their guns into the air so that when they landed they could tell the comrades that badgered them before they were even out of the cockpit, "I fought off 20 of them!" and so forth. The level corruption continues to this day, being ingrained from a young age to appease the political machine unless you go missing in the night. You find similarly exaggerated kill numbers (fabrications) all the way up to Korea and Vietnam. So while maybe there were 27 FWs to shoot down, I would seriously doubt that many were engaged by Soviets just based on experts who have researched Soviet claims and the corresponding facts.

[PR3D4TOR]

...of unbalancing the gameplay.

That's the only thing that matters. As for the rest, how many Krustys do you think HiTech would score your post on his Krusty scale? 

[Tilt]

Then again, you have to question the legitimacy of any Soviet kill claims, as they were badgered and co-erced into exaggerating claims so that the propoganda machine could feed Communist lies to appease the masses. The Soviets have by far the worst morals in regards to reporting, recording, and checking on actual kills. It doesn't matter to them, it was just something to make them look good.

Actually that is not correct.......... any more than any other nation. Of course there were "inaccuracies" but false claims were very seriously penalised. Whilst the propaganda machine did its thing with the populace the official VVS record was as accurate as the fog of war allowed. Folk were executed for inaccurate reporting!

[PR3D4TOR]

People were also shot for incompetence of command. Best to pad the scores a little...