Accident report from the duxford mustang/skyraider collision

[expat]

Found this over at WIX.
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/february_2012/p_51d_mustang__d_fbbd_and_douglas_ad_4n_skyraider__f_azdp.cfm

[icepac]

Still downloading the report but there are 3 at fault.

1.    The person who OK'd the "pop top" break.

2.    The mustang pilot for breaking hard and suddenly slowing as well as stopping his pull.

3.    The skyraider pilot for not keeping visibility on the leader.

[RTHolmes]

something fishy about this collision, according to many in AH both aircraft should have blown up in a massive fireball as soon as there was even the slightest contact. the skyraider pilot was plainly hacking.

[Butcher]

something fishy about this collision, according to many in AH both aircraft should have blown up in a massive fireball as soon as there was even the slightest contact. the skyraider pilot was plainly hacking.

HACKS!

[JOACH1M]

I already have a thread for this! 

[colmbo]

3.    The skyraider pilot for not keeping visibility on the leader.

This is the problem.  He didn't keep lead in sight.  No excuse for not keeping lead in sight.

[smoe]

They also forgot to make sure the collision box wasn't checked.

[Puma44]

This is the problem.  He didn't keep lead in sight.  No excuse for not keeping lead in sight.

Ditto!  Never lose sight of lead. 

[Golfer]

Still downloading the report but there are 3 at fault.

1.    The person who OK'd the "pop top" break.

2.    The mustang pilot for breaking hard and suddenly slowing as well as stopping his pull.

3.    The skyraider pilot for not keeping visibility on the leader.

No, just #3. The Lead (Mustang) needs to keep space with the element ahead and it's the first three jobs of every wingman on their to-do list to NOT hit their lead.

Stuff the wingman does:

1.) Don't hit your lead
2.) Don't hit your lead
3.) Don't hit your lead
4.) If not hitting your lead, breathe.
5.) Takes the fat chick
6.) Don't hit your lead

The Skyraider pilot did not do his job well as evidenced by the fact he did in fact hit his lead. All post lead hitting heroics and $h!t hot flying to get his airplane down safely are negated as a result of hitting his lead.

[icepac]

The skyraider pilot lost sight of the lead plane who performed the most lame break of every single plane that day.

The mustang hadn't even turned 90 degrees by the time that every other plane flying breaks that day was almost at 180.

The mustang was not where he should have been but it is inexcusable for the skyraider to not maintained sight of the mustang.

[Golfer]

It's hard to take a response like that serious, so I won't.

The Mustang is charged with keeping his flight from conflicting with others. The coolness or lameness of the break doesn't factor but what you did see was the Mustang extending slightly to keep separation from the preceding airplanes.

The sky was anything but empty and arbitrarily breaking as you would as a single ship with an empty pattern would absolutely cause conflicts. That, and wingmen not keeping sight, is how accidents happen.

I like to think you already knew that though.

[icepac]

He did not extend.

He made a smart break, and almost immediately released pressure.

If  he had wanted to extend, he would have added power instead of pulling power and adding flaps.

Watch all the other 30 breaks performed that day........his is very different than the breaks performed by all the rest of the planes.

This does not excuse the skyraider pilot but his losing the leader would have not been an issue if the leader were where he should have been.

I still place blame on both pilots and whoever approved that type of break.

[Golfer]

I disagree. There were other flights ahead of the Mustangs flight and as the lead is responsible for maintaining separation from them which seems is what was going on.

How much sense does it make to add power if you need to increase the distance between you and the aircraft ahead you're closing on?  You shallow your turn, extending your distance flown as you smoothly and predictably rejoin the downwind with appropriate spacing between your flight and those ahead of you.

The Skyraider not keeping sight of his lead and flying an aggressive break with zero SA as to the location of the previous flights location to his own position much less his own reference airplane caused this accident. Period.

When you change lanes on the freeway do you do it without looking?  When you performed your maneuvers as you prepared for your private pilot certificate did you do them without clearing turns?

If you rear end a car while driving it's not a good excuse to say that the person made a lame turn if you ram up their behind and they weren't where they were yesterday. It's still your fault.

[colmbo]

This does not excuse the skyraider pilot but his losing the leader would have not been an issue if the leader were where he should have been.

It is always an issue regardless of what lead does or doesn't do.

[CAP1]

This is the problem.  He didn't keep lead in sight.  No excuse for not keeping lead in sight.

 i've only ever flown formation twice in rl. both times i was the right seat pilot. both times we were the lead plane. it was only 2 plane formations. both times, we had specific procedures.
 one of those procedures, was that if #2 lost sight they would go up and to the right, and we would then maintain straight and level flight. on the second time we did this flight, he did in fact lose sight of us, and informed us of such, as he went up and right.
 this kept him away from us, and us away from him, as upon hearing that we maintained straight and level, until we both had vis on each other. the best part was that no one on the ground realized that anything was wrong up in the air.