Radiator hits for different plane types

[bozon]

The 109s are really prone to rad hits, pings on either the left or right wing root will cause a radiator hit.

At least from allied pilot stories, they describe the glycol stream coming out of the 109s as one of the first signs of damage. Of course, they tend to tell the stories about the planes that they eventually shot down and not the ones that took a hit and got away.

[Charge]

"On the 109, if one radiator was hit, they had the option to shut it off via a pull cable in the Cockpit. Even with the valve closed, it it still leaked. Though it did provide the pilot a little extra breathing room, it probably gave him enough to get him back across the front lines."

From memoirs that I have read none of German aces remembers to mention shutting down the damaged radiator. While they were usually able to get back to their own side (eastern front) and even land the engine usually seized at some point. This leads me to think that while the option for shut off valve was technically there they were not installed very often -or they just did not remember they actually shut the valve.

-C+

[Karnak]

"On the 109, if one radiator was hit, they had the option to shut it off via a pull cable in the Cockpit. Even with the valve closed, it it still leaked. Though it did provide the pilot a little extra breathing room, it probably gave him enough to get him back across the front lines."

From memoirs that I have read none of German aces remembers to mention shutting down the damaged radiator. While they were usually able to get back to their own side (eastern front) and even land the engine usually seized at some point. This leads me to think that while the option for shut off valve was technically there they were not installed very often -or they just did not remember they actually shut the valve.

-C+

That may be on the Bf109, but the Spitfire's was electrically operated automatically when the mesh over the radiator was pierced.

[SouthLanda]

Charge, I too am aware of the radiator valve. In fact in the war, maintenance crews often prized the valve.... apparently not all factories installed them when building 109s.

You raise a good point. How would you even KNOW which radiator what hit?

Anyone have an ideas? I'm not sure I wuold have any clue which set of pipes were hit..... how would I know what one to turn off?

[Debrody]

Anyone have an ideas? I'm not sure I wuold have any clue which set of pipes were hit..... how would I know what one to turn off?

Maybe there was a pressure gauge?  idk

[Charge]

Eyeball Mk1. They simply looked from the side window and saw from vapor stream which radiator was leaking. 

-C+

[STEELE]

Eyeball Mk1. They simply looked from the side window and saw from vapor stream which radiator was leaking. 

-C+

  You beat me to it
 As for
190D9 and Ta 152:  I've gotten radiator hit from DEAD 6 at least 40 times each plane, which is just simply flabbergasting!  For one, there's the pilot seat armor, two, the firewall and engine!
 Thirdly, there's 2 full inches of armor protecting the radiator in both planes!   These planes' radiator "hit bubbles" need to be investigated badly, I'm surprised the issue hasn't yet been pursued! 

[smoe]

I remember an episode on the History Channel or similar. A WWII pilot mentioned a suprising possible fact about the 51 (may apply to other planes as well). He said if the 51 took a radiator hit. The 51 would only fly for about 45 min and then the engine would freeze. No doubt he could be very much off and may have never experienced 1st hand a radiator coolent hit. His memory from 50+ years ago could be affected as well.

I also remember watching accounts on the 51 having multiple radiator shutoff valves. One of the designers spoke of his experience when designing the 51 radiator with auto-shutoff valves. These valves (didn't say how many) would close if loss of pressure/coolent in a section of the radiator. The idea was in case a projectile (small stone, bullet, etc...) punctured a section of the radiator the plane would still be flyable.

Another thing to keep in mind for overheated engine lockup. My thought is an engine will lock up only after oil loses its viscosity. At various temperatures oil will break down over a given amount of time. The hotter the oil the faster it breaks down. So for example, the current AH2 engine rise model may be accurate to some extent. Meaning, after the engine temp goes into the red zone. The oil is shot and results in extreme friction and heat gain. Another factor in determining engine heat/loss effect is the oil cooler radiator. The oil cooler would aid in cooling an engine as well, but with limited results.

I would like to suggest the following if coolent loss time/engine overheat lock-up is re-modeled:

1. The engine temp. gauge seems to rise the same no matter what the engine throttle is set to. I believe engine temp. rise should be based more on throttle position and maybe even RPM’s.

2. The engine temp. gauge seems to follow a linear heat rise instead of exponential. As an engine gets hotter, heat would radiate off the engine at a higher rate than at lower temp's., thereby, slowing the temp. gauge rise as the engine temp. nears the red zone. This is basic 101 thermodynamics which state heat transfers at a linear rate with regards to delta T (delta T = the difference in temperature between two objects or mass, the higher the temperature difference = higher heat transfer rates).

I suggest the following (for a rough example only) that engine temp. gauge should do the following with the loss of liquid coolant. Note: this is just a guestamate.

Proposed engine temp gauge rise rate with no liquid coolant and at full throttle (degrees C):
From   90 to 100  = 0.5 minutes
From 100 to 110  = 1.25 minutes
From 110 to 120  = 2.5 minutes
From 120 to 130  =  4.0 minutes

Proposed engine temp gauge rise rate with no liquid coolant and engine off (degrees C):
From 130 to 120  = 1 minutes
From 120 to 110  = 3 minutes
From 110 to 100  = 5 minutes
From 100 to 90   = 8 minutes


Please don't take my word for the above suggestions. These are things I would be interested to learn in more detail. My above suggestions may 100% wrong do to oil viscosity breakdown effects. Who knows, the current AH2 coolent loss modeling may be accurate as-is?

[Ruah]

with the 109 it seems that both radiators are modeled for damage - and any ping to the wing, especially around the wing root is a radiator hit.  But there is only one actually functioning. . . so basically you have 2 radiators for damage, and either one will kill the whole cooling system.

With the 190, if its in the engine, then there is a high radiator possibility - but in the A5, I find radiator hits to be relatively rare. . .which is one big reason i fly the A5 more now. . . because it seems like every time I up a 109. . . i am crawling home after a few pass' with my engine dying. . .

[pervert]

with the 109 it seems that both radiators are modeled for damage - and any ping to the wing, especially around the wing root is a radiator hit.  But there is only one actually functioning. . . so basically you have 2 radiators for damage, and either one will kill the whole cooling system.

With the 190, if its in the engine, then there is a high radiator possibility - but in the A5, I find radiator hits to be relatively rare. . .which is one big reason i fly the A5 more now. . . because it seems like every time I up a 109. . . i am crawling home after a few pass' with my engine dying. . .

The doras rad is in front of the engine and behind the prop, still don't buy the modelling, flying a dora almost exclusively for the last few years it feels more like the modelling is returning a very high likelyhood of a rad hit but not taking into account were the bullet hits, feels like a cliche of damage modelling.

As others have said it doesn't seem to matter what angle it comes from or distance I've taken rad hits from 1k sprays from my 6 quite frequently, just makes for lazy gameplay and a constant stream of p51s trying to spray you head on hoping for rad hit as soon as they see white smoke its one in the bank and they clear off. How it translates to gameplay is people end up getting random kills from seemingly impossible situations, from my view as an exclusive dora driver when I factor in transit times and the long periods in this game I spend looking for action it just makes it a lot more boring and frustrating.

I'm gotten to the stage were I can predict a rad hit before it even happens. And thats not hard considering 90% of anytime you get hit in game its...a rad hit.

[Ruah]

the A varients rarely radiator hit - and engine hit is usually an oil hit.  The dora/152/109s are almost always a radiator hit. . .so simple really - just get in an A5.

[save]

Fw190 A-series use an air-cooled system ie no fluid but oil can get hit.

Odds the enemy killed the air itself is lesser than slim  even on a German  plane

[pervert]

the A varients rarely radiator hit - and engine hit is usually an oil hit.  The dora/152/109s are almost always a radiator hit. . .so simple really - just get in an A5.

2 completly different aircraft A5 is nowhere near as good as a dora.

[Debrody]

2 completly different aircraft A5 is nowhere near as good as a dora.

The A5 rocks just as much as the dora. Turns good enough to surprise the ponies, jugs, climbs just as good as the dora, awesome steady in the 50mph vertical reversal.
The only weakness its a very late '42 bird, not a late '44 one. They can run "away" from you... whats actually very sad.

[pervert]

The A5 rocks just as much as the dora. Turns good enough to surprise the ponies, jugs, climbs just as good as the dora, awesome steady in the 50mph vertical reversal.
The only weakness its a very late '42 bird, not a late '44 one. They can run "away" from you... whats actually very sad.

If you look at as an overall energy picture I can take on a couple of planes or even having my present fight interrupted and still escape said situation in a dora. It is true the very fact that your up against generally more powerful planes that the A5 falls short. I agree with the running away part, but even spits will try and run away once you have their 6 against quick planes like ponys I will always build an E advantage I can chase them down quickly with.

In the vertical and top end acceleration the a5 also falls short of the dora a lot of my fighting is pointing the nose up and maxing out the aircraft in vertical spirals using primarily roll the a5 just doesn't seem to lend itself well to this type of energy fighting.