General Aviation Careers

[Golfer]

It's good you used JetBlue as an example as I have some experience with them.

A 3 year 190 FO can make 6 figures. That is a fact. While you're limited to flying 1000 hours a year per FARs what you'll actually credit and at what rate can vary. They have an override threshold after which your hours are paid at time and a half. I don't remember off hand what it is but your block hours (logbook hours) and credit hours (what you're paid) aren't always the same. Depending on how I bid at my former employer (NOT JetBlue) and what the company's needs were even though I could only block an average 83.3 hours a month I'd often credit 120+. If I was crediting 70 hours at regular rate and whatever remainder block hours at my override rate I could do quite well.

Each airlines contract is different in how it's set up but except for bottom rung regionals (my former employer counts) even a 10 year FO can make a reasonable living. Brand X is a lousy example because their FOs top out at $36/hr with no trip or duty rigs or cancellation pay. Lousy deal and extra lousy and stagnant for the 6 year FOs with no upward movement.

[MachFly]

Fair enough.

Aside from the idea that it's a good financial decision to start a flight school I think the most recent thing was you using an incident as an example only to find out you didn't actually know anything about that incident even very basic research would have provided.

I watched a guy squander a seven figure windfall from a construction accident on starting a flight school. Aside from having totally unrealistic leases on his airplanes he couldn't run a business any more than Japanese speak Navajo.

I guess my main beef would be passing off unrealistic advice as good advice and asking things even the most basic google search would answer. Is that fair? Maybe not and while I realize not everyone works the same way it still irks me and I don't generally sit on my irks.

Maybe I should be less like this guy:

(Image removed from quote.)

I did not say that it's a good financial decision. I said if you want do work with GA and you can be a good businessman you will make more then as a regular CFI forking for some small school. I never said that anyone can do it. He was looking for something to do with GA, I have him an idea. If he would have gotten any interest in it I would have explained it more specifically.  

Regarding the incident, sure I didn't know every detail, but what I knew was enough to prove my point. And I did prove it.

[MachFly]

It's good you used JetBlue as an example as I have some experience with them.

A 3 year 190 FO can make 6 figures. That is a fact. While you're limited to flying 1000 hours a year per FARs what you'll actually credit and at what rate can vary. They have an override threshold after which your hours are paid at time and a half. I don't remember off hand what it is but your block hours (logbook hours) and credit hours (what you're paid) aren't always the same. Depending on how I bid at my former employer (NOT JetBlue) and what the company's needs were even though I could only block an average 83.3 hours a month I'd often credit 120+. If I was crediting 70 hours at regular rate and whatever remainder block hours at my override rate I could do quite well.

Each airlines contract is different in how it's set up but except for bottom rung regionals (my former employer counts) even a 10 year FO can make a reasonable living. Brand X is a lousy example because their FOs top out at $36/hr with no trip or duty rigs or cancellation pay. Lousy deal and extra lousy and stagnant for the 6 year FOs with no upward movement.

I think I might have misunderstood you, you guys log less hours then you really fly to make it legal with the FAA?

When you said that a 3 year FO can make 6 figures, that's 3 years with the company. I'm sure that he's been flying for a lot longer then that.

[Golfer]

Well you sort of didn't referencing the Korean Air flight but that's obviously it's own tangent in another thread.

And when (not if, as it's much more likely to fail than succeed) your flight school goes bankrupt for dozens of reasons it doesn't pay as much as being a CFI for a different solvent business.

The very last thing I'd do is start a school to provide basic flight instruction. I didn't even do that back when I actively instructed since the demand just isn't there in most municipalities. Getting into more specialized instruction can be somewhat more lucrative and establishing your own network of good clients (think Wolfala) is extremely beneficial but it's not going to make you a fortune.  It's poor advice and I think you'll find those who have done it (and I'm not suggesting I'm the beacon of experience in the matter) would agree.

[Golfer]

I think I might have misunderstood you, you guys log less hours then you really fly to make it legal with the FAA?

When you said that a 3 year FO can make 6 figures, that's 3 years with the company. I'm sure that he's been flying for a lot longer then that.

No. What you fly is what you fly and you're limited to that number per FARs. What you get paid can be significantly more based on override, deadhead, trip/duty rigs and any number of other means.

What do you want to do with your career?  Where will you be in 5 years?  10?  Retirement?

[MachFly]

And when (not if, as it's much more likely to fail than succeed) your flight school goes bankrupt for dozens of reasons it doesn't pay as much as being a CFI for a different solvent business.

The very last thing I'd do is start a school to provide basic flight instruction. I didn't even do that back when I actively instructed since the demand just isn't there in most municipalities. Getting into more specialized instruction can be somewhat more lucrative and establishing your own network of good clients (think Wolfala) is extremely beneficial but it's not going to make you a fortune.  It's poor advice and I think you'll find those who have done it (and I'm not suggesting I'm the beacon of experience in the matter) would agree.

Whether your school succeeds or not depends on you. Most people suck as business management, it does not mean that those that are good should look at the statistics and not do it.
I never said anything about a school that will provide basic flight instruction, I just said flight school in general.

Here is a perfect example of a small good flight school, Tutima Academy, people go there from all over the country. Sean Tucker doesn't just know how to fly good he also made good business decisions. I don't know how much the guy makes, but I bet it's a lot.

[Tupac]

They started a new flight school in San Marcos that looks pretty good

http://redbirdskyport.com/

They are doing alot to bring people in, atleast get their name out there and make sure everyone has a positive experience. They had an AOPA town house with Craig Fuller last Monday and on March 3rd they are having a fly-in lunch. I think it would be a neat place to work.

[Golfer]

Everybody should open a flight school because it's a great career choice and has a very good chance of success.

[MachFly]

No. What you fly is what you fly and you're limited to that number per FARs. What you get paid can be significantly more based on override, deadhead, trip/duty rigs and any number of other means.

Roger.

What do you want to do with your career?  Where will you be in 5 years?  10?  Retirement?

Me? USAF.

[Tupac]

Everybody should open a flight school because it's a great career choice and has a very good chance of success.

My first instruductory flight got cancelled twice because of weather, on the third time I called back the line was dead. My mom and I drove out to the airport and the school was closed.

[MachFly]

They started a new flight school in San Marcos that looks pretty good

http://redbirdskyport.com/

They are doing alot to bring people in, atleast get their name out there and make sure everyone has a positive experience. They had an AOPA town house with Craig Fuller last Monday and on March 3rd they are having a fly-in lunch. I think it would be a neat place to work.

I been to an openhouse of a flight school last year. Those guys existed for 10 years or so but they were training in strictly helicopters. Last year they decided to expand and bought 12 Piper LSAs and 6 SR20s. It looked great, they had great facilities, great fleet, and plenty or experience. Right now they sold most of the fleet, have 2 Pipers left (and one is on sale) and 1 Cirrus that just sits in the hangar.
I really thought they were going to do well.  

[Tupac]

The flight school that I flew out of for awhile (and rent the 210 and cub at) is a private owned public use airfield. The flight school and the FBO are owned  by the folks that own the airfield so the overhead is minimal http://5c1.net/

That's where I intend on teaching once I get my CFI



edit: I also get all my maintenance done out there.

[Tupac]

Southwest pilots would know the lady the owns it

[Sonicblu]

Lol my cfi just turned 23

If you want to make money it's in uav's right now. That is my goal. Down side is it's all point and click waypoint flying. I'm working toward cfi. As I would rather teach than fly them.

[Selino631]

you could fly for Fedex or UPS.

or you could fly for World Airways, they are a chartered company and fly military personnel around the world.