The Guns or the Armor?

[humble]

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Does anyone horizontal scissor in AH?

Does anyone vertical scissor in AH?

Does anyone barrel roll with rudder assist in AH?

Do you people roll into lag pursuit to keep your energy up until you can pull lead for a shot?

Do you people put your lift vector on the guy after the merge?

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I do all of the above and so do most of the regular sticks here. There are still issues regarding rubber bullets and front aspect shot's etc. But all in all the plane mix here is better balanced than I've seen elsewhere. Although the issue of hi hogs is certainly real, the only plane poorely equipped to deal with the threat currently is the the 38. Once the better flap modeling is enabled I think it's poor roll rate will be less of an issue.

When you sign up come on by the training area, you'll find some pretty good T&B action most of the time.

[Yeager]

Nash mentioned that he thought:
ammo and the damage it inflicts is modelled. Each AC's armour, however, is not (yet).
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Nash, I think you are correct!

Yeager

[Beaz]

Ok... good this is getting somewhere. You can use all the manoeuvres that you have spent possibly many years perfecting in "other" sims. Brand "W" for instance. Sounds good. I will enjoy testing this out.

You have other threads on this board to name but a few which talk about people feeling a little 'peeved' about the HO's and wishing to do something about it. Someone even suggests a gentlemans agreement on not HOing   Good luch with that campaign  Hardly rocket science, or even clever, pulling into someone for an HO shot and yet people appear to do this all the time instead of positioning themselves properly. Is this the norm? Is it that these people just don't know any ACM? Certainly sounds like it to me. If someone comes at you then you have no choice but to turn into the attack to cut the angle. This is basic ACM. Do people barrel roll on the merge to spoil the other guys aim? Or does doing that waste too much energy in AH so that you are at the mercy of the guy diving on you?

You also have another thread where people 'boast' about the number of kills they have had in 1 sortie. Correct me if I'm wrong but the greatest someone seems to have been 17. That's pretty impressive. The greatest number of kills in 1 sortie in brand "W" is 17. That's in all the time that brand "W" has been in existance and the greatest number of kills in one sortie is 17.

On the other hand AH is only into tour number 2 after the beta and already someone has posted a 1 sortie killing spree of 17. That's not to say that pilots in AH are any better or worse than pilots in brand "W" but yet AH posts a score of 17 and in only its second tour. That just smells rather fishy to me... odd! Sounds like its just too easy to get kills? It should be damn tough to get 6, 7 or 8 kills in one sortie. The Spitfire was regarded as a 2 kill wonder. Climb like a bat out of hell, kill, come back down again. The greatest number of kills by a Spitfire in WWII in one sortie was 5. Yet several people have posted 13 kills in a sortie several times already (probably not in Spits). This is unheard of in brand "W". Not to say that its wrong. It just sounds rather fishy to me. Can someone explain to me how that can be possible?

Regards

Daren

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Beaz aka ==bz==
249 Squadron RAF "Gold Coast"
"With Fists and Heels"
Part of the Tangmere Wing

[Thzone]

For one, to my understanding, most people here have much more sticktime than RL pilots did in WWII.  This means that we probably also have vastly better gunnery skills coupled with the fact that there are perfect conditions in the arena at all times (except for the rare cloud).
Have you ever read the fighter stories from WWII?  The fighter pilots (with wingmen) usually ran into small groups of planes, 5 or 6.  This means that you don't really have the opportunity to get more than that number of kills, even if you personally shoot down every plane.
Planes weren't exactly able to CAP a field, as in to say that planes weren't constantly upping from the field.  Therefore they didn't get the opportunity for the vulch.
We have far more planes in a much smaller area in the arena than in RL, so your plane/sq mile ration is very high.
The F4u-1c has an amazing amount of ammo, I personally had a 9 kill sortie with 400 rounds left in both ammo counters.  The FW has a ton of cannon rounds too.

Well, if that helps, your welcome.
Thzone (returned but still not playing)

[Hobo]

PLEASE, before this turns into a flame war, let's not point fingers or turn this into an "us VS them" comparison.  That was not my intent.  My intent is for us to have a good discussion on the guns/armor of AH...period.  
I came back to AH for the guns...the STRONG guns.  I just think they need to be turned down a slight amount.  This would make for better (and longer) dogfights, yet still reward the pilot that makes a good bounce. It would discourage the HO shooters to a small degree.  And it would also make the ack less deadly, thereby making jabo runs a valid tactic.

If not the guns, then I'd like to see the armor either modelled (if it isn't yet) or made slightly stronger.


Hobo

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Re: high killing sprees:

This is possible mostly due to the high lethality of cannons especially during the beta period before kinetic damage at range was tuned down. All those very high kill rates are from excellent pilots running a vulch. In truth a good shot here can kill a plane taking off with as little as 5 or 10 hispano along a wing tip or root and letting the plane spin into the ground. I think the highest I ever saw was Mitsu who had 21 using a spit Mk IX, he used his cannon rounds first then when he ran out he used 50 cal to damage wings and pick up kills when they crashed.

  That being said, in combat in my experience lethality is actually pretty fair. I drive an La-5FN and in a solid shot 10-20 ShVAK will land around 5 or 10 hits and do enough damage to knock a plane out of the sky. In a mustang I usually use bursts of 50-150 rds and with anything over 10 rds hit I can expect serious damage, probably a kill if they are converged on one area. and 30mm tends to be lethal with 1-2 hits just as it should be (avoid the 109 experten like the plague!). In general planes tend to be able to sustain 1-2 strikes with damage being survivable or unnoticed depending where it hits but after that things get broken real fast. Also in AH there are 64 or more seperate areas a bullet or cannon round can strike, pass through or affect upon explosion in the plane. Quite often glancing .50 cal hits will break things on my plane but leave me flying. like wise I have pasted the tail of a B-26 with 6 ShVAK from the side and had it still fly away seemingly unhurt with just his saddle guns gone.

[Rommel]

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[This message has been edited by Rommel (edited 03-23-2000).]

[blitz]

Hi beaz & all you excellent pilots from brand "W".

1.This sim is in progress as everyone knows  
  and i hope it will be forever.
2.There are a bunch of really good AH pilots
  (most of them former Brand "W" pilots), who
  enjoy themselves spending their time in
  this sim.
3.Yes, as in every other sim most of the
  people(including me) want to change this  
  or that.
4.HTC is a very small company with great
  customer support + nice people, who work
  hard to get things right + they seem to
  love their work.
5.I would prefer to see new pilots trying out
  the 2 free weeks of flying rather than to
  start some kind of investigation on the AH
  BB.C'on guys, what's the problem here, just
  try it - than jugde.

  blitz    

As for the discussion: Canons a tad back + 50cal a tad more agressive would be my choice.

 
 

 
 
 

[This message has been edited by blitz (edited 03-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by blitz (edited 03-23-2000).]

[Beaz]

 

C'on guys, what's the problem here, just
                  try it - than jugde.

I will... and no there is no problem.

Just highlighting the fact that on your own BB there appear to be certain subjects that seem to be all pointing towards the fact that the guns are too strong. Hobo asked the question not myself.

[blitz]

Hi beaz,

nice to see at the skies of AH soon - at least for 2 weeks.  

blitz

[Minotaur]

Beaz;

I only wonder how much time you have played AH?  

Alot of what you have state makes no sense to me.  Keep in mind that I am very green, having played online sims for only 3 years.  AH since early Beta.

I do not read the WB's BBS, but I am starting to get the idea of what goes on there via your progression into this BBS.

I did not like AH at all in the beginning, but now I do.  Irregardless, I hope you come to like AH and change your opinion.  In final evaluation I suspect that it becomes what you are used to, and what you prefer.

At in rate good luck to you!

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Rocket]

Hobo,
 One thing to remember.  I believe it was HT that told me that with the graphics limitations that missing wings or stabs etc are not really gone but not useable as a flight surface.  In order to show them not fuctioning correctly they are removed.  If an aileron is unable to redirect airflow properly due to damage it is removed from the plane as an indicator.  I am sure that this will change bit by bit as the game progresses in development.  I have flown since the first beta tour and have enjoyed everybit of it.  I don't think that the guns are too big, I think the pilot skill is extrememly high.  And as long as people ride out the early stages then we as a community can help HTC make the game better as we go  

SALUTE!

Rocket

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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________

 www.reddragons.de

[This message has been edited by Rocket (edited 03-23-2000).]