190 Gun pods

[DEECONX]

Can anyone direct me to more information about the gun pods that were fitted on various 190s? From what little I can find (wiki, so take it lightly until confirmed) is that they were kits from the factories sent to the front lines.

 What were the results of these?

Did the pilots immediately demand them off?

Did they appreciate the extra firepower or not?

What limitations did it put on them performance wise?

Would it be enough to add them to the game (Much like the gondolas or the WGr 21 rockets we have now) ?

Thanks! 

[Charge]

If we consider only attachable pods they were called Rüstsätse i.e. field conversions kits.

R1 2xWB151/20 making the total of 20mms six pieces, used agains bombers (pulk-zerstörer)
R2 2xMk108 cannon, these were either in an underwing pod or inside the wing dependin on version they were installed in.
R3 2xMK103 cannon, mainly for JABO work, never used in large scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCstsatz

-C+

[DEECONX]

If we consider only attachable pods they were called Rüstsätse i.e. field conversions kits.

R1 2xWB151/20 making the total of 20mms six pieces, used agains bombers (pulk-zerstörer)
R2 2xMk108 cannon, these were either in an underwing pod or inside the wing dependin on version they were installed in.
R3 2xMK103 cannon, mainly for JABO work, never used in large scale.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%BCstsatz

-C+

Yeah, that's what I had seen earlier, but it doesn't really give me what I am looking for. Thanks though. 

[Charge]

Oh, ok.

What is comes to R1 and R2 installations they were preferred in their intended role in bomber interception but they also hindered the performance of 190 too much, particularly when the amount of enemy escorts increased. These "Pulk Zerstörers" also required escorts themselves due to increased weight and drag. I'd say that R2 was the most successful of these as later on the 30mm cannon was put inside the wing in cannon bay and most of these fighters also had additional armoring (Sturmbock) but parts of these were taken off from some fighters creating a wild array of armor variants in field units. One usual variant is displayed in A8 in AH which only has the wing MG151/20 switched to MK108 (notice that the wing leading edge former for MG151/20 and MK108 installation are different).

R3 was not really meant for bomber interception since the performance of 190 suffered too much making even the bomber interception limited to 6 oc attacks, which were dangerous without additional armoring. MK103 would not have fit inside the wing of 190 so there was no workaround for drag caused by pod installation. Add to that the required armor for bomber interception and the 190 would have been quite useless. Their use for JABO work was presumably restricted by unsynchronized firing which tended to yaw the aircraft making them inaccurate when firing bursts. I'm sure that making a fast attack plane slow and lumbering with such installation did not attract the pilots too much either so the MK103 installation was very unpopular and was not used after initial experiences.

-C+

[DEECONX]

Oh, ok.

What is comes to R1 and R2 installations they were preferred in their intended role in bomber interception but they also hindered the performance of 190 too much, particularly when the amount of enemy escorts increased. These "Pulk Zerstörers" also required escorts themselves due to increased weight and drag. I'd say that R2 was the most successful of these as later on the 30mm cannon was put inside the wing in cannon bay and most of these fighters also had additional armoring (Sturmbock) but parts of these were taken off from some fighters creating a wild array of armor variants in field units. One usual variant is displayed in A8 in AH which only has the wing MG151/20 switched to MK108 (notice that the wing leading edge former for MG151/20 and MK108 installation are different).

R3 was not really meant for bomber interception since the performance of 190 suffered too much making even the bomber interception limited to 6 oc attacks, which were dangerous without additional armoring. MK103 would not have fit inside the wing of 190 so there was no workaround for drag caused by pod installation. Add to that the required armor for bomber interception and the 190 would have been quite useless. Their use for JABO work was presumably restricted by unsynchronized firing which tended to yaw the aircraft making them inaccurate when firing bursts. I'm sure that making a fast attack plane slow and lumbering with such installation did not attract the pilots too much either so the MK103 installation was very unpopular and was not used after initial experiences.

-C+

Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks Charge! 

[Babalonian]

Oh, ok.

What is comes to R1 and R2 installations they were preferred in their intended role in bomber interception but they also hindered the performance of 190 too much, particularly when the amount of enemy escorts increased. These "Pulk Zerstörers" also required escorts themselves due to increased weight and drag. I'd say that R2 was the most successful of these as later on the 30mm cannon was put inside the wing in cannon bay and most of these fighters also had additional armoring (Sturmbock) but parts of these were taken off from some fighters creating a wild array of armor variants in field units. One usual variant is displayed in A8 in AH which only has the wing MG151/20 switched to MK108 (notice that the wing leading edge former for MG151/20 and MK108 installation are different).

R3 was not really meant for bomber interception since the performance of 190 suffered too much making even the bomber interception limited to 6 oc attacks, which were dangerous without additional armoring. MK103 would not have fit inside the wing of 190 so there was no workaround for drag caused by pod installation. Add to that the required armor for bomber interception and the 190 would have been quite useless. Their use for JABO work was presumably restricted by unsynchronized firing which tended to yaw the aircraft making them inaccurate when firing bursts. I'm sure that making a fast attack plane slow and lumbering with such installation did not attract the pilots too much either so the MK103 installation was very unpopular and was not used after initial experiences.

-C+

I've always assumed from reading about their development that they were developed in their external accessory form first and earlier-on, with those most-effectively developed systems that were found succesful and that were small and compact enough to be arranged within the wing's profile were incorporated into later production models and improved wing designs (some production models then had these outer wing cannons installed, others just provisions but not installed, and many were modified in the field later to meet their mission's/pilot's requirements despite the configuration that they were produced in). 

Those external cannon platforms too large/cumbersome/unreliable to be enclosed within the wing or to be adopted in later production designs though I think still stayed available in the arsenals and in it's external-pod form throughout most the war (in particular I'm thinking the R3, but the R1 too).  They might not of been ideal to most pilots (especialy in comparison to the more popularly preffered internal single Mk108 or MG151/20), and likely were far from it, but there are at the least some photos documenting that they still existed in active use until about the end.

[DEECONX]

I've always assumed from reading about their development that they were developed in their external accessory form first and earlier-on, with those most-effectively developed systems that were found succesful and that were small and compact enough to be arranged within the wing's profile were incorporated into later production models and improved wing designs (some production models then had these outer wing cannons installed, others just provisions but not installed, and many were modified in the field later to meet their mission's/pilot's requirements despite the configuration that they were produced in). 

Those external cannon platforms too large/cumbersome/unreliable to be enclosed within the wing or to be adopted in later production designs though I think still stayed available in the arsenals and in it's external-pod form throughout most the war (in particular I'm thinking the R3, but the R1 too).  They might not of been ideal to most pilots (especialy in comparison to the more popularly preffered internal single Mk108 or MG151/20), and likely were far from it, but there are at the least some photos documenting that they still existed in active use until about the end.

Cool! Thanks for the info!   

[Babalonian]

This looks interesting: http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2011/11/focke-wulf-190-vol-i-1938-43-smith.html

Three volume Fw190 publication in the works!        First I've heard of it, eager to look more into it and the authors.













If I can't afford it, I hope someone who can will also have a hangar or office that I can sweep for them while I read their copy.   

Anybody else already hear of this or looked into it/the authors?

[MiloMorai]

Smith/Creek have authored many high quality books on German a/c.

Me262, 4 vol. sells for over $500 ea. now
He162, 3 vol.
Hs129

and some others I can't remember.

Spend the money on the Fw190 books.

[Babalonian]

Smith/Creek have authored many high quality books on German a/c.

Me262, 4 vol. sells for over $500 ea. now
He162, 3 vol.
Hs129

and some others I can't remember.

Spend the money on the Fw190 books.

You've made me both near estatic and suicidal.

Have mop and bucket, will travel. 

[MiloMorai]

Put the mop and bucket away. The 262 books have been reprinted and can be had for a descent price.

[DEECONX]

Wow, that looks awesome! Will keep my eyes open for these! 

[Butcher]

Put the mop and bucket away. The 262 books have been reprinted and can be had for a descent price.

I paid $12 for it on amazon, along with many of my books I paid under $20 for.

[Krusty]

The external gunpods weren't simply "unpopular" -- they were field tested and found to be unsuitable for use in combat. Hence, they were never put into production. The one exception is the WB151 twin gunpod that saw limited use against bombers (before the escorts showed up en mass) and on airframes other than the 190.

It's not that the Mk103 was inaccurate or cumbersome, so pilots didn't use it. They didn't use it because it was never allowed to be made a production kit. It was never distributed to units or depot levels. It simply wasn't used because it wasn't a valid weapon system.

[Bodhi]

Smith/Creek have authored many high quality books on German a/c.

Me262, 4 vol. sells for over $500 ea. now
He162, 3 vol.
Hs129

and some others I can't remember.

Spend the money on the Fw190 books.

I have the Me262 series.  It is amazing work.