Air Combat Training for idiots

[guncrasher]

So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish

well here are the basic rules again.

1.Try to secure the upper hand before attacking. If possible, keep the sun behind you.

2.Always continue with an attack you have begun.

3.Only fire at close range, and then only when the opponent is properly in your sights[/b].  that means from any angle.

4.You should always try to keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

5.In any type of attack, it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

6.If your opponent dives on you, do not try to get around his attack, but fly to meet it.

7. When over the enemy's lines, never forget your own line of retreat.

8. Tip for Squadrons: In principle, it is better to attack in groups of four or six. Avoid two aircraft attacking the same opponent.

they were set over 100 years ago.  they're being taught still to this day.  here's a brief description of them too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dicta_Boelcke

and here is who came up with them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Boelcke

and for the record the only reason you shouldnt ho is because the enemy can also shoot back at you, it's just that simple.

semp

[Rino]

     I look forward to the next "For Idiots" topic by the OP.  The last two have been very entertaining 
It's very educational too, I never knew that being active duty military made you an expert on all things ACM.

[VonMessa]

So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, which yes not all info in wiki is acurate but a good majority is, and u can tell the accurate info just by doing more research to verify what it says. The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_combat_manoeuvring

Now also i have taken a few sentances and posted them here for those that are too lazy to research proper ACM tactics.

Air combat manoeuvring (also spelled: air combat maneuvering, or ACM) is the art of manoeuvring a combat aircraft in order to attain a position from which an attack can be made on another aircraft. It relies on offensive and defensive basic fighter manoeuvring (BFM) in order to gain an advantage over an aerial opponent.


Pilots achieved firing position while avoiding the threat of enemy guns by manoeuvring behind the enemy aircraft. This is known as getting on an aircraft's six o'clock or tail, plus a wide variety of other terms, usually coined by air crews. This type of combat became known as dogfighting. Oswald Boelcke, a German fighter ace during World War One, was the first to publish the basic rules for aerial combat manoeuvring in 1916, known as the Dicta Boelcke.[4][5] He advised pilots to attack from the direction of the sun (towards which the defending pilot could not see), or to fly at a higher altitude than the opponent. Most of these rules are still as valuable nowadays as they were a century ago.

A pilot in combat attempts to conserve his aircraft’s energy through carefully timed and executed manoeuvres. By using such manoeuvres, a pilot will often make trade offs between the fighter’s potential energy (altitude), and kinetic energy (airspeed), to maintain the energy-to-weight ratio of the aircraft, or the “specific energy”.[6] A manoeuvre such as the “low yo-yo” trades altitude for airspeed to gain closure on an enemy, and to decrease turn radius. The opposite manoeuvre, a “high yo-yo” trades speed for height, literally storing energy in “the altitude bank”,[8] which allows a fast moving attacker to slow his closing speed.[6][9]

The manoeuvres employed by the attacker can also be used by the defender to evade, or gain a tactical advantage over his opponent. Other components may also be employed to manoeuvre the aircraft, such as yaw, drag, lift, and thrust vectors.[6] A key factor in all battles is that of "nose-tail separation." While getting close enough to fire a weapon, an attacker must keep his aircraft's nose far enough away from the tail of the defender to be able to get a good aim, and to prevent an overshoot. The defender, likewise, will use every manoeuvre available to encourage an overshoot, trying to change his own role to that of attacker.[6]


LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish

Ohhhhhhh Ohhhhhhh, a BBS ACM lesson from der Experten 
















Will there be a test? 

[Tom5572]

I do not know if I should laugh or cry.

[ozrocker]

Guess Mr Shaw should take notes.


                                                                                                                                Oz

[Moelders]

    I look forward to the next "For Idiots" topic by the OP.  The last two have been very entertaining  
It's very educational too, I never knew that being active duty military made you an expert on all things ACM.

It does if your job entails a requirement for in-depth knowledge of such, otherwise you are correct that there is little relevance to active duty military and ACM knowledge.

[Vinkman]

So there seems to be quite a few ppl who think they know about ACM's and such. Well over 90 percent of the comments i have seen ppl post about ACM's, have absolutely NO idea of what they are talking about. If I had a month to do thread research here in the forums, i would be able to fill pages of misguided thoughts and comments. below is a link to the Wiki page, The link below should help guide some of yall know it alls.
LOL have fun understanding what this means, I know that for some of yall it will be total gibberish

Hmm. You would have been much better served to wait for ain incorrect post referencing ACM and specificly correct it, than to make this blaket post that everyone is a moron except you because you read Wikipedia, so everyone else should do same so they can catch up.

No one will get past the arrogance of you post to see to what ever deeper problem you are trying to address. 

[Black Jack]

I watched TOP GUNS... once. I know everything there is to know about ACM.   

[Wiley]

I watched TOP GUNS... once. I know everything there is to know about ACM.   

Pfft.  Top Gun is fine for jet era, and some of it does apply, but to learn about prop plane ACM, you really need to watch Iron Eagle III.

Wiley.

[Slate]

Pfft.  Top Gun is fine for jet era, and some of it does apply, but to learn about prop plane ACM, you really need to watch Iron Eagle III.

Wiley.

Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too. 

[Rino]

     Top Gun "stratergery"...Hit the brakes and let em fly right by! 

[Rino]

Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too. 

     If I'm ever fighting a T-6 with a Corsair, I'll be sure and use their moves 

[VonMessa]

Pfft I watched Ba Ba Black sheep. That is the definitive Guide for WW2 ACM. It taught me how to drink and chase nurses too. 

Also lets us know that you are an 

 

[Mace2004]

The Wiki article is actually good if pretty basic information.  I say "basic" because probably every single paragraph in the article could easily be expanded into a whole chapter (or two, or three) in order to cover all the ifs, ands, and buts about the subject. Also, take a look at the references and you'll see a lot of Shaw which certainly isn't a bad place to start, after all, Shaw basically used the TOPGUN manual as his source. 

The problem, and what leads to lots of discussion, is figuring out what all this stuff really means to someone trying to apply the information in the real (or virtual) world. 
I suppose the real issue here is the OP's attitude and assumptions which makes for a pretty unattractive argument to convince anyone to actually look at the article or stimulate an intelligent conversation on the subject.

BTW, not to be a "know it all" but, since the OP seems to be all hot and bothered by accuracy, it's just ACM not "ACM's" with the apostrophe s.  Never, ever use the term ACM's.  Same with BMF...no apostrophe s.  Nothing personal, just trying to rid the forum world of some gibberish.

[Badboy]

Mace

That made me smile... Thanks!

Badboy