Author Topic: Car nuts - info required  (Read 2047 times)

Offline gpwurzel

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3836
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #45 on: February 28, 2012, 05:50:41 PM »
Good idea Dragon, didn't think of that one. Frenchy, if you get the time, could you break down what you think it needs?

Cheers chaps,

Wurz
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22416
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #46 on: February 28, 2012, 09:01:35 PM »
1974 Interior (It should not be that much different from your 1973):



You are missing some stuff, but I think you can get the stuff you are missing without breaking the bank.
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline katanaso

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2480
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #47 on: February 28, 2012, 09:04:03 PM »
1974 Interior (It should not be that much different from your 1973):

(Image removed from quote.)

You are missing some stuff, but I think you can get the stuff you are missing without breaking the bank.

It's nice and simple, and old Porsche. :) 

mir
80th FS "Headhunters"


The most terrifying words in the English language are: "I'm from the government and I'm here to help."

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5420
      • http://home.CFL.rr.com/rauns/menu.htm
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #48 on: February 29, 2012, 10:42:40 AM »
Well, I was indeed talking him into making it a racer  :t

First tell your wife she's out of her mind.  :cheers:

Assuming you want to sell her, you'll have several possible buyers.

- The aficionado, cleanliness, originality/matching parts is the name of the game, will know exactly what parts are $$$, how things are supposed to look like, see right through your MAACO paint job, will know exactly the true resale value of your car and will shoot down your ego and price down.

- The racer, He's going to gut the inside/rebuild engine/trany/suspensions anyway, all the cares about is how straight/rust free the body/frame is. The bad part, he wants something dirt cheap. OR he'll try to pay for the racing parts by selling on ebay great shape interior/engine/suspension parts ... which your car doesn't seem to have.

- The pigeon, aka (I always wanted one - I don't know crap into cars - my son wants it bad) that's full of good intentions, will overlook all the little things that add up to $$$. The good enough glitter combined by a sudden irrational desire to look cool will wipe out common sense and saving accounts.

Assuming you want to restore her, and since you have no tools:

Restore for you, or to sell and make a profit. Making a profit, except if you find a 'pigeon', not going to happen. For you, I'll settle for the good enough. By that I mean thins car will be your fun car, you want a car that doesn't leak oil all over you driveway, that is reliable, that looks good enough that you feel happy getting in something special for a little week end escapade. That doesn't include : "I spent $6000 for the paintjob alone, and I'm paranoiac I'm going to collect in asingle rock chip on my way to the car show'. Not my idea of 'fun', thus the good enough rule part.

What do you need? I don't know. It looks like the body is straight, and the interior is mediocre. How's the engine? Is it the usual 'protective layer of crud all over the bottom of it?' How's the internals, did you get at least a compression/leak down test to find at what you have? Does the engine shakes itself silly in third gear at 6000 RPM? Does the car track straight? Does the car jumps from lane to lane @80MPH? Does the transmission shifts smooth on spirited driving, does the car brakes straight when you stomp on the brake.

Basically you have:

- Engine/transmission. I'm pretty sure engine alone for a rebuilt stock one would be $2500 - $3500 range. From what I know about VWs, if you indeed do have a mechanic friend you might be able to refresh this engine for $1,000-1500. (New pistons, bearings, rings, gaskets, valve guides, carbs/fuel injection parts (dono what you have), and machine shop machining labor. The transaxel transmission IDK. Then don't forget the engine external that might look borderline about to die, the stupid $50 relay, alternator/generator, starter all those $20 to $100 items that leaves you out of the part store with a $400 bill. :eek: How rotten is the exhaust system?

- The body. Assuming there's no rust to be taken car off (I don't see any rot on your car but I'm on a cell phone). Off course you could go to MAACO for $600, but if you want to do it yourself, and keep it cheap, you'll do : sand the paint/bondo little dents/prime/single stage paint. That means At least a 30+ gallon compressor ($500), some type of oil/water separation gizmo ($30 to 250), 2 paint guns, one for primer, one for paint ($150-250 each on the cheap), primer filler, primer sealer, single stage paint (maybe $500ish of paint), painting supply (measuring cups, lint free rags, painting mask, compounds & BS stuff $200), a DA sander, a polisher ($100 for both) and countless sanding papers of various grits at $4 a pop, and a lot of them.

- The interior, Those seats will need re-apostery, just saw a set on Ebay for $800, but maybe your local rag cutter can make a descent set for a couple $100, just bring only the seats so he doesn't overcharge because you said 'Porsche'.  :rolleyes: The cracked dash pad, I think I saw one on ebay for $350. And then the gauges ... do they all work? Does the tach bounces all over? Carpet probably $100+, knobs, switches, Door panels ... all that accumulates to an another couple $100s.

- Brakes/suspensions, Do you need new ball joints, are they commonly available? Shocks/brake rotors/wheel bearings, again a couple of $100s if you do the work yourself, otherwise my kid's car just cost me $250 for the front brakes, $400 for all shocks.

- Tools, ouch ... we already talked about the compressor/paint guns/DA sander. You'll really enjoy a set of wrenches/ratch ... you know the $250 SAE/metric 400 pieces SEARS special, a solid air gun $75, a set of power tool sockets, plus all the silly specialized tools such as tie rod separator, pullers, spring compressors .etc Again those add up at $20 - $50 a pop. Engine crane, engine stand ($200).

Combine all those numbers and add you initial $1,800. Then cruise craiglist and figure out that you'll never get your money back. Here's an example from my local classified :

$2,900

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=0&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=6135750

Now about making her a racer/week end warrior
The concept sounds cheap, gut her out, redo the brakes, stop the leaks, put some safety equipments. But it's not. You WILL melt you pads on your rotors after your first cession. Then here comes the $$$ brake system. You are not going to enjoy driving around the track shifting at 4000 RPM either, so you'll rebuild your engine possibly with upgraded parts that can withstand being revved up at 7K. And your trany/differential better be able to handle the 4 to 2nd downshift too. You might put bigger tire, but then then the extra grip might overwork your suspensions, and here comes shocks/adjustable this/reinforced that ... which ain't cheap either. IDK, someone that knows about the weakness of those will tell you what is a 'must upgrade'.

And here's my disclaimer, I am unfamiliar with those cars, so don't take my word as the gospel  :pray I'm trying to give you an idea via my personal experience as a car hobbyist. I know one thing for sure, when you disconnect/unbolt something during your restoration - Take a picture - draw a diagram - put everything in a labelled zip-lock ... because even 10 min later you will second guess yourself on how it's supposed to come back together.  :aok

« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 10:46:27 AM by SFRT - Frenchy »
Dat jugs bro.

Terror flieger since 1941.
------------------------

Offline gpwurzel

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3836
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #49 on: February 29, 2012, 05:21:23 PM »
Thats actually very useful Frenchy, thank you. Told the wife she's way over on her price, but as usual, she probably wont listen  :furious

Got a thread on 914World.com as well, need to supply some specific pictures for them to look over.  We'll see what happens over the next few weeks kinda deal!!

Mash, is that your 914? Pretty looking fella,

Thanks again chaps,

<S>

Wurz
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #50 on: February 29, 2012, 05:44:38 PM »
great post there frenchy, really nailed it.

theres a good reason why most of the guys racing (who arent just very wealthy) own a workshop and repair/restore cars for a living.


wurzel if youve wanted a 914 all your life and are looking for a time and money consuming project. then go for it, otherwise get shot asap (and hope a pigeon comes along ;))


edit: I used to own a '62 TR4 and have always liked the idea of building a classic racer. last time I priced it out it came to about £20k for donor, parts, long engine rebuild to race spec. that excludes tools and assumes I'll be doing almost everything myself. its amazing how the odd door handle mech/indicator light/relay box/etc add up. and I would end up with a sub 800kg/160bhp racer which would be a few years and a many more £££s to become competitive and would be pretty undrivable on the street. you can get elises for about £12k with similar performance and better handling. or for the same money build an ultima for proper GT racecar performance ...
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 06:02:49 PM by RTHolmes »
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline ROC

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7700
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #51 on: February 29, 2012, 05:51:19 PM »
Frenchy has made the best points to consider from my humble opinion.  Here is a nice history link to the 914
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/2006/05/01/hmn_feature8.html for reference on how it came to be.

It's middle of the production run, so that's good.  Great year, improved shifting without the "end of the line" cutbacks.

The 914 was never a "real' Porsche according to the purists, but then, if it's not a 911 they don't think it's a Porsche anyway.  

Here's one like mine, a Boxster, I think it does the job nicely, but it's not considered a "Pure" Porsche either, even though most of the car is interchangeable with the 911 lol


I've actually always liked the look and feel of the 914, scoots along quite nice.  Although I wouldn't consider putting a great deal into a full restoration, it is definitely worth a good paint job and hit the recyclers for nice replacement interior parts, there are some fantastic body kits and interior upgrades available also.  If you are going to fix it up, fix it up fun.  I don't think you will get the "classic restoration" number from a true restoration, it just isn't that type of collector car.  IMHO.

Fix it for fun, and drive the tar out of it.  Don't forget to upgrade the exhaust to get the true Porsche sound out of it, those don't quite have that distinctive rumble that telegraphs a Porsche coming down the road long before you see it. Not loud, just unique.

The really good thing about this car is that fixing it is affordable.  Unlike mine, if I blow up that flat 6, I'm into a rebuild for $12K, where as you can pick up a rebuilt engine for about $2,800.00 and bolt it up.

Fix it up and drive it, enjoy it, then sell it if you feel like it.



« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 05:56:58 PM by ROC »
ROC
Nothing clever here.  Please, move along.

Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #52 on: February 29, 2012, 06:14:12 PM »
pretty sure you can get a new exchange engine from porsche for about $12k for a 2.7l, a rebuild should be way under that from a decent specialist, but if it hasnt blown up yet and you keep it serviced and filled with good oil you should be good :aok
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7301
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #53 on: February 29, 2012, 06:30:43 PM »
Haven't touched a porsche since doing restoration work on this one in 1990.


Offline RTHolmes

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8260
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #54 on: February 29, 2012, 07:09:19 PM »
that pic reminds me of a guy I knew just after I left school, theres always one flash kid in the class and it was him. when he got his license he got to drive his dads old 928 around. it had 60k on it and ran great (despite the loud whirring and whizzing noises while it started up) and most of the electrics still worked ;)

so he decides he wants to buy his own porker, his first car, so looks for a 911 in the classifieds in london and buys the first one he sees off some arab in chelsea. he drives it round to my house and it looks sweet - an early 80s blue 930 with private plates. whaletail, wheelarches, BBS alloys and that badge - holy crap hes bought a turbo! and hes really excited, as you would be. I dont know much about porsches so it looks ok to me, but I want to see that legendary motor so he flips the engine lid. I said "if its a turbo ... um ... wheres the turbo?" after he checked the chassis # it turned out to be a '73 and took him another 10 years and I dread to think how much money to restore it back to a mint 911S :lol
71 (Eagle) Squadron

What most of us want to do is simply shoot stuff and look good doing it - Chilli

Offline Masherbrum

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22416
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #55 on: February 29, 2012, 07:49:10 PM »
Haven't touched a porsche since doing restoration work on this one in 1990.

(Image removed from quote.)

Nice 76 934.    Probably one of my favorite Imports of All-Time.  
FSO Squad 412th FNVG
http://worldfamousfridaynighters.com/
Co-Founder of DFC

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7301
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »
That one has power windows and the original carpet as well as other comfort items you wouldn't think to find in a limited production factory race car.

It sold for $395,000 and it looks like the new owners now have it in it's original racing livery.
 

Offline gpwurzel

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3836
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2012, 11:29:20 AM »
Decision might have been taken out of my hands  :D Got a job interview on Tuesday 6th, for an IT Specialist - if I get that, slow time restore is definitely on, gonna get her done so I can have it as a weekend/fun car for myself.

Wurz
I'm the worst pilot ingame ya know!!!

It's all unrealistic crap requested by people who want pie in the sky actions performed without an understanding of how things work and who can't grasp reality.


Offline PFactorDave

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4334
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2012, 11:47:05 AM »
Decision might have been taken out of my hands  :D Got a job interview on Tuesday 6th, for an IT Specialist - if I get that, slow time restore is definitely on, gonna get her done so I can have it as a weekend/fun car for myself.

Wurz

Hoping the best for you!  Good luck with the interview and the car!

1st Lieutenant
FSO Liaison Officer
Rolling Thunder

Offline Dragon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7055
      • AH JUGS
Re: Car nuts - info required
« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2012, 12:07:10 PM »

Oh you'll get the job, the car likes you and will do whatever it takes to keep you.



Ever seen Christine?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ5M11m9vI0
SWchef  Lieutenant Colonel  Squadron Training Officer  125th Spartan Warriors