Little Tweaks

[PR3D4TOR]

It's funny how many people think that language needs to be controlled, or even can be controlled. You'd need a Big Brother style tyrannic state to enforce it. All living languages today are very different from what they were a mere ten generations ago, both in pronunciation and grammar.

Our father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debters.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.


If we go another 10 generation back in time...


Oure fadir žat art in heuenes halwid be ži name;
ži reume or kyngdom come to be. Be ži wille don in herže as it is dounin heuene.
yeue to us today oure eche dayes bred.
And foryeue to us oure dettis žat is oure synnys as we foryeuen to oure dettouris žat is to men žat han synned in us.
And lede us not into temptacion but delyuere us from euyl.


Another 10 generations...


Fęder ure žuže eart on heofonum
si žin nama gehalgod tobecume žin rice gewurže žin willa on eoršan swa swa on heofonum
urne gedęghwamlican hlaf syle us to dęg
and forgyf us ure gyltas swa swa we forgyfaš urum gyltendum
and ne gelęd žu us on costnunge ac alys us of yfele sožlice.

[Penguin]

It wouldn't be tyrannical at all.  The language would change just as it did before, but with some more structure.  The only difference would be in the way it is taught and written on government documents.  That would eliminate the old spellings and conjugations over time.  However, words, phrases, and styles themselves would certainly go in and out of style, and the language agency would adapt just like the dictionaries do.  No dogma, no shenanigans, just phonetic spelling and an end to conjugations and titles such as Mr. Ms. Miss, and Mrs.  Sir and Ma'am would stay, for addressing unnamed parties in a formal way.

-Penguin

[PR3D4TOR]

How kin thet wawk when varmints doesn't even talk like they larn in skoo now?

How kin dat wo'k when sucka's duzn't even rap likes dey teach in farm now?

How can that work wen blokes don't even rabbit and pork like they teach in school now?

Duh, how can dat work when peoble don't eben talk like dey teach in school now, duh...uh...?

ohw an that Wr0k wh3n doodz don't even 4l;k 7iek tehy teach in cshool now!??!?!???!?

How can dat werk when niggas don' even jive like dey teach in skoo now? all ye damn hood ratz..

[JunkyII]

-School starts at 8:00, ends at 15:00 (More sleep)Cry me a river
-All homework, materials, plans, powerpoints, etc., are on the internet (Easier to get back on track after absences, fewer worries)not bad idea
-Change US National Anthem to "America the Beautiful" (It makes more sense)I would kick you in the chest if you said this to me in person
-Issue all students laptops (on good behavior)We are already moving toward that
-Redraw state borders to make a grid (It's like that in the West, why not in the East?)Because of natural boundary lines...like Maryland's southern border...the Potomac River
-Rename football to American Rugby (It's pretty much that)Flat out unAmerican
-Get rid of the titles of Mr., Mrs., Miss, and Ms., and just call everyone by their first names Your Parents failed here

-Penguin

Here are some little tweaks
-All US citizens must serve 2 years in a military branch
-Genral Patreus (Ret.) runs for President

[Penguin]

How kin thet wawk when varmints doesn't even talk like they larn in skoo now?

How kin dat wo'k when sucka's duzn't even rap likes dey teach in farm now?

How can that work wen blokes don't even rabbit and pork like they teach in school now?

Duh, how can dat work when peoble don't eben talk like dey teach in school now, duh...uh...?

ohw an that Wr0k wh3n doodz don't even 4l;k 7iek tehy teach in cshool now!??!?!???!?

How can dat werk when niggas don' even jive like dey teach in skoo now? all ye damn hood ratz..

Really?  Besides some mild accents, every single person without a speech impediment in my school speaks English clearly and fluently.  Besides, there are pronunciation guides in the dictionaries.  These would be the new spellings.  You're taking my points and building strawmen out of them.

-Penguin

[Tupac]

Really?  Besides some mild accents, every single person without a speech impediment in my school speaks English clearly and fluently.  Besides, there are pronunciation guides in the dictionaries.  These would be the new spellings.  You're taking my points and building strawmen out of them.

-Penguin

Yeah but you live in the Northeast. Go to Houston, and your opinion will change.

[MaSonZ]

What on earth does regulating language have to do with immigration?  You're nostalgic and paranoid.  Big brother died with the USSR.  Read a little history and you'll see how far we've come.  No more slavery, women's rights, minority rights, Braille, SAP (Spanish dubbing), wheelchair ramps, FOIA; the list goes on and on.  Does that make government perfect?  Heck no.  There's corruption, foolishness, and scoundrelry everywhere.  It's always been that way, and it always will be.  Spanish is also one of the US's official languages, and Asians are everywhere and doing well.

As for language itself, I speak Polish, a language with all sorts of grammar.  It's not more 'beautiful' than English because of its gender.  It just makes the language harder to use.  The beauty comes from the poets and authors. 

-Penguin

you read into my post too much.... In the novel, Big Brother did not allow immigration. Why would you dumb down a language that everyone speaks already? Yes, you could argue that it would begin brainwashing and the sorts, but if you want control that bad, martial law can be implemented to the larger cities.

Government controlling a freedom of ours restricts our freedoms more. We have a right to "Freedom of speech", when the government comes in and tells me how I can and cannot talk, I will come to you and ask if it reminds you of big brother.

Yeah but you live in the Northeast. Go to Houston, and your opinion will change.

I live in MA, and in my section of MA I can second this. I live in a working middle class/ working poor area. MY family got lucky when the recession hit, and both my mom and dad stayed employed until just a couple years ago. Different story, different time. where I live, There are asians, mexicans and different breeds of europeans, visitors and citizens, and I hear A LOT of speech imperfections. even amongst my peers who I grew up with I can still hear speech impediments.....

ignorance, and living off what mommy and daddy tech. open your mind and think with your own thoughts. 

[Penguin]

Where did I say that the government would police how people speak?  I could speak like Shakespeare for the rest of my life and no-one would throw me in jail.  It wouldn't be just one country, though, all the English speaking countries would form an independent body (made of scholars, not the governments themselves) to come up with the implementation.  How is 'cow' any 'smarter' than 'kow'?  Not everyone speaks English already, you're arguing from tradition.  People are born all the time, and English should be something easy for them to learn, not full of arcane rules that only confuse them.  Have you considered the fact that having these arcane rules creates those imperfections?  For instance, in France, spelling errors run rampant due to all the irregular conjugations.

-Penguin

[ACE]

Here are some little tweaks
-All US citizens must serve 2 years in a military branch
-Genral Patreus (Ret.) runs for President

I like the idea of the military serving.  However, it wouldnt be a free country if we are forced to do so.

[MaSonZ]

Where did I say that the government would police how people speak?  I could speak like Shakespeare for the rest of my life and no-one would throw me in jail.  It wouldn't be just one country, though, all the English speaking countries would form an independent body (made of scholars, not the governments themselves) to come up with the implementation.  How is 'cow' any 'smarter' than 'kow'?  Not everyone speaks English already, you're arguing from tradition.  People are born all the time, and English should be something easy for them to learn, not full of arcane rules that only confuse them.  Have you considered the fact that having these arcane rules creates those imperfections?  For instance, in France, spelling errors run rampant due to all the irregular conjugations.

-Penguin

In this argument, say english was "easy" to learn, shouldnt the rest of the worlds languages be easy to learn? why should our language be the only "easy" language for a foreigner to learn? My view for the outcome if that were the case: Those that didn't care to try in life would come here thinking "If they're language is easy to learn, so is the rest of they're lives" and it would ultimately compound our national issues, such as debt, drug abuse and un-safe living conditions.

[HB555]

What on earth does regulating language have to do with immigration?  You're nostalgic and paranoid.  Big brother died with the USSR.  Read a little history and you'll see how far we've come.  No more slavery, women's rights, minority rights, Braille, SAP (Spanish dubbing), wheelchair ramps, FOIA; the list goes on and on.  Does that make government perfect?  Heck no.  There's corruption, foolishness, and scoundrelry everywhere.  It's always been that way, and it always will be.  Spanish is also one of the US's official languages, and Asians are everywhere and doing well.As for language itself, I speak Polish, a language with all sorts of grammar.  It's not more 'beautiful' than English because of its gender.  It just makes the language harder to use.  The beauty comes from the poets and authors. 

-Penguin

The United States has an official Language?
Even more to the point, you say, "Spanish is also one of the US's official languages", indicating that you believe there to be even more than one official language? (U.S.'s, not US's. One of the many written English rules I learned in school some 50 years ago.)
While your upbringing seems to be very New England upper middle class, your writing very above average and many of your thoughts and ideas well above average, you also need to realize that the more you know, the more you should realize that there is much that you don't know.
When you go head to head with some of us older generation fellows who did not learn to speak and write as well as you, you may find that age, wisdom and life experience is more than the equal of a polished, smooth talking person such as yourself.
When and if you get out in the world and are fortunate enough to realize that not everyone has had your advantage in life, you will begin to mature and realize that most of what you are saying in this thread is not the way things are, no matter how much you may wish them to be.
I wish you a long life and the ability to learn as you grow.

[Penguin]

All languages should be easier to learn, I agree; however, your conclusion does not follow from your premises.  You keep referring to these one-dimensional people whose sole goal in life is not to try, but I don't see how making life easier for everyone hurts things.  We could make screws have randomly assigned thread directions, but would that get us anywhere?  No, it would just make screwing something together a major pain in the butt.  The same applies to language.  Does it really help anyone to have forty different conjugations of a single word (French)?  No.  Anything above one conjugation for each tense is superfluous and only makes the language harder to use.  Do I have problems with English?  Not really, but I'd certainly like it if French were easier.  It would take a pointless load off the backs of those trying to talk to French people and French children.  Having a complicated language doesn't help anyone at all.  Look at ASCII art, it comes from simple, functional pictures arranged in creative shapes.

       |  |
       |  |

    \_____/

See?  Now if I had to conjugate my backslashes, would that make the art better?  Or if I had to type with my toes?  No.  Language should be like ASCII art or LEGO bricks: The complexity comes from its arrangement, not its properties.

@HB555 According to my 5th or 6th grade Social Studies book, yes, the U.S. does have two official languages: English and Spanish.  Oops, I forgot to add the periods in U.S.  My bad.  I'm slightly confused about what you refer to with regard to "advantage," though.  Yes, my town certainly has wealthy people in it, and I may be one of them, but my only reference is a discussion that I had in middle school about annual household income, and if I remember correctly my parents made the most.  I say this as a confirmation of what you said about my upbringing.  Kids don't really think about what their parents make unless something awful happens (job loss, death, disaster) and those sorts of things don't happen too often where I'm from (it's not because of anything specific, really, we're just away from the coast and not in a geologically unstable area).  I try to not be snooty as best I can, though I do avoid those who speak of drugs for my own sake (i.e., someone overhears me and I get in trouble).  Now with that said, do you mean that as I meet more people I will realize that their teachers taught them poorly and that no matter how you made the language they'd still mess up?  That I can understand, but we can always try, because as it stands they mess up, too.

-Penguin

[Tupac]

 .__.
(O,o)
(/::\)
 "  "

say whut

[Penguin]

Where'd you learn that one?

-Penguin

[MaSonZ]

All languages should be easier to learn, I agree; however, your conclusion does not follow from your premises.  You keep referring to these one-dimensional people whose sole goal in life is not to try, but I don't see how making life easier for everyone hurts things.  We could make screws have randomly assigned thread directions, but would that get us anywhere?  No, it would just make screwing something together a major pain in the butt.  The same applies to language.  Does it really help anyone to have forty different conjugations of a single word (French)?  No.  Anything above one conjugation for each tense is superfluous and only makes the language harder to use.  Do I have problems with English?  Not really, but I'd certainly like it if French were easier.  It would take a pointless load off the backs of those trying to talk to French people and French children.  Having a complicated language doesn't help anyone at all.  Look at ASCII art, it comes from simple, functional pictures arranged in creative shapes.

       |  |
       |  |

    \_____/

See?  Now if I had to conjugate my backslashes, would that make the art better?  Or if I had to type with my toes?  No.  Language should be like ASCII art or LEGO bricks: The complexity comes from its arrangement, not its properties.

@HB555 According to my 5th or 6th grade Social Studies book, yes, the U.S. does have two official languages: English and Spanish.  Oops, I forgot to add the periods in U.S.  My bad.  I'm slightly confused about what you refer to with regard to "advantage," though.  Yes, my town certainly has wealthy people in it, and I may be one of them, but my only reference is a discussion that I had in middle school about annual household income, and if I remember correctly my parents made the most.  I say this as a confirmation of what you said about my upbringing.  Kids don't really think about what their parents make unless something awful happens (job loss, death, disaster) and those sorts of things don't happen too often where I'm from (it's not because of anything specific, really, we're just away from the coast and not in a geologically unstable area).  I try to not be snooty as best I can, though I do avoid those who speak of drugs for my own sake (i.e., someone overhears me and I get in trouble).  Now with that said, do you mean that as I meet more people I will realize that their teachers taught them poorly and that no matter how you made the language they'd still mess up?  That I can understand, but we can always try, because as it stands they mess up, too.

-Penguin

I keep referring to "those one dimesnioal people who dont want to try" becasuse as I look around at others who are young adults. I see just that. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of people I know that actrually want to do something with life and know how they must acquire those goals.

I have never heard of English being an "official" language, matter of fact, I have never heard of any country taking claim to an "Official" language. What HB was referring to was how lucky you are to be so educated, intelligent, and be brought up in a more financially stable family then many, but you must also realize that being intelligent, educated or financially stable as opposed to others does not change how people will think, irregardless of what you do. He also said that with learning things come accepting you don't know a lot of what here is to know. You could be another Albert Einstein, but you do you really know as much as you "think" you know? You could be unquestionably the best president we as a country have ever seen, but does that mean you know everything there is to know about being a president? one of my teachers in middle school (who I had for a high school class last year too) has a poster in his room saying something to the effect of "The human brain is like an iceberg. we only use 1/8 of it, as we only see 1/8 of an iceberg." I want you  to think on this. dont answer it right now because you feel you have a correct anwer as to "why" this is the case, but in the grand scheme of life, knowledge and a singular entity in yourself, what does the saying mean?