110 Rocket Rule

[perdue3]

Take it out please. It castrates the 110s.

I know that my opinion counts for very little with the FSO staff but here are my feelings:

I was given a simple, juicy task: Attack bombers with 110G's. I had Jokers and JG 11 with me which is usually a very good thing. With 25+ fighters covering 15+ B24s, our 110s are only guaranteed 1 perfect pass where we are not bothered by escorts. With a little luck we would be at a HO pass. Of course, we were not. We came in from the bombers' 2 oclock. In the spirit of FSo I told my squad (10 110s) to make your first pass with rockets (rocket rule). We had little success. I know some could argue that you could shoot the rockets then switch to guns in the first pass, but we just aren't good enough to do that. I would venture to say most pilots aren't. So instead of using the 2500 30mm cannons we have at our disposal on our 1 protected pass, we use a proximity rocket that has a modest 5% chance of success.

If the rule was not in place, we wouldve made a gun pass whilst the buffs were in their sights and probably scored twice as many kills if not more. The rule that you must fire them is fine by me. The rule that you have to use them on your first pass is insane in my opinion. After our first pass, Jugs and 38s were all over us and the 24's decimated the target with ease. I could have easily told my squad to fire the rockets early just so we would not get in trouble and make a guns pass. But, I believe in and follow the "spirit of FSO."

So, all i ask is that the FSO staff makes a small change: 110s must carry rockets, but do not have to fire them on their first pass.

As stated, I know MY opinion of all people means very little to the FSO team but if anyone gives it a little thought I would appreciate it <S>

[ELD66]

You just want to keep your kills from the first merge. You should of raised this before the first frame.

[perdue3]

I dont get your first statement but I will answer the second. The reason why I did not bring it up before is because I did not think it would play that HUGE of an impact. Obviously we knew it would have an effect but I did not realize how HUGE of an effect. If you check the setup thread, you will see kilo2 mentioned the rule was a little bit much.

Not so much the fact we have to take the rockets it is the fact we have to use them on the first pass.

[Spikes]

You just want to keep your kills from the first merge..

This doesn't make any sense...at all. Please rephrase.

You should of raised this before the first frame.

Didn't really think it was going to be that big of a deal before the first frame, until it happened. 110s get 1 good pass, just one. Also needs grammar check.

[perdue3]

Couple problems for me are the no fly zones (which seem to be in fashion for the axis) and the 110s must carry rockets. Not only must they carry rockets but they must also make their first attack run with rockets. In my opinion it is not very fun to force people to fight a certain way.

[Shifty]

The 110 first pass rocket rule was set to ensure rockets were used in anger not dumped prior to combat. My squad flew 110s with rockets as well. My flight lead and I made a  rocket attack from the 6 O clock on a B-17 formation on our first pass. Our rockets missed and we set up making a successful cannon pass on the same formation each getting one of the B-17s. I don't have a problem if you hold your rockets until you have a better angle on a later pass. I don't have a problem if you are jumped by escorts before you even see buffs and have to get rid of your rockets in order to survive. I only have a problem if you jettison them without attempting to use them in combat. If that makes sense to you, I'll amend the setup.

[Spikes]

The 110 first pass rocket rule was set to ensure rockets were used in anger not dumped prior to combat. My squad flew 110s with rockets as well. My flight lead and I made a  rocket attack from the 6 O clock on a B-17 formation on our first pass. Our rockets missed and we set up making a successful cannon pass on the same formation each getting one of the B-17s. I don't have a problem if you hold your rockets until you have a better angle on a later pass. I don't have a problem if you are jumped by escorts before you even see buffs and have to get rid of your rockets in order to survive. I only have a problem if you jettison them without attempting to use them in combat. If that makes sense to you, I'll amend the setup.

How I read them in defined text was:
You have to make your first, initial, primary pass with rockets. ie first thing to be shot at bombers is rockets, NOT guns.

Was your first pass on the B17s from the six oclock, or did you come in from their front? If you came in from their front, you violated the rules.

[kilo2]

The 110 first pass rocket rule was set to ensure rockets were used in anger not dumped prior to combat. My squad flew 110s with rockets as well. My flight lead and I made a  rocket attack from the 6 O clock on a B-17 formation on our first pass. Our rockets missed and we set up making a successful cannon pass on the same formation each getting one of the B-17s. I don't have a problem if you hold your rockets until you have a better angle on a later pass. I don't have a problem if you are jumped by escorts before you even see buffs and have to get rid of your rockets in order to survive. I only have a problem if you jettison them without attempting to use them in combat. If that makes sense to you, I'll amend the setup.

Yes that is preferable to must be first run. The only reason they were a problem is because we had 1 pass in our situation and that pass we had to shoot rockets.

[perdue3]

The 110 first pass rocket rule was set to ensure rockets were used in anger not dumped prior to combat. My squad flew 110s with rockets as well. My flight lead and I made a  rocket attack from the 6 O clock on a B-17 formation on our first pass. Our rockets missed and we set up making a successful cannon pass on the same formation each getting one of the B-17s. I don't have a problem if you hold your rockets until you have a better angle on a later pass. I don't have a problem if you are jumped by escorts before you even see buffs and have to get rid of your rockets in order to survive. I only have a problem if you jettison them without attempting to use them in combat. If that makes sense to you, I'll amend the setup.

You dont care if we hold em til a better shot? Thats not in the rules. The rule says first pass.

[Shifty]

How I read them in defined text was:
You have to make your first, initial, primary pass with rockets. ie first thing to be shot at bombers is rockets, NOT guns.

Was your first pass on the B17s from the six oclock, or did you come in from their front? If you came in from their front, you violated the rules.

Well if you're going to quote me maybe you should read the quote.  My quote clearly states our intial pass was a rocket attack from the 6 O'clock on a B-17 formation.

You dont care if we hold em til a better shot? Thats not in the rules. The rule says first pass.

I said I would ammend them because yes I don't care if you want to hold them for a better pass. That makes sense. Again I'm here trying to help you and listen to your opinons and you're still spoiling for a fight. Do you guys want the rule ammended or do you just want to argue? Let me know what you decide.

[perdue3]

Yes, please do. I didnt realize we didnt have to shoot the rockets first pass. I guess that was my interpretation problem. I should've asked you first I suppose.

[Spikes]

Well if you're going to quote me maybe you should read the quote.  My quote clearly states our intial pass was a rocket attack from the 6 O'clock on a B-17 formation.

Doh, didn't drop down to the next line.

[perdue3]

I don't have a problem if you hold your rockets until you have a better angle on a later pass.

VS.

**All BF-110s must and carry out initial attack with WGr21 Rockets**





Apparently I misunderstood. It would not hurt to make the rule a little more clear for future frames.

[Shifty]

Yes, please do. I didnt realize we didnt have to shoot the rockets first pass. I guess that was my interpretation problem. I should've asked you first I suppose.

No you read the rules correctly they did state that the BF-110s must make their first pass a rocket run. Like I said my intention was to ensure rocket attacks were indeed carried out not just jettisoned before contact was even made. I can understand you guys had a situation where it was nearly impossible to make an effective rocket pass on your first pass. The fact you had the integrity to not only keep them but you also did your best to make an effective attack with them but were unable because of positioning tells me the rule should be amended. I want the 110s to make a honest attempt at rocket attacks, I don't want them being cannon fodder. The new rules will read 110s must attempt at least one rocket attack if at all possible. Had I been a flight lead I may have well had the same problem. I'm just lucky the guy I wing off of has a knack for putting me in the right place at the right time. If he could have kept me from being a ramming goober on my third pass I might well have had a stellar night in the 110 but he only has so much to work with when it comes to his wingman. Your opinions and observations are as valid as anybody's. You don't have to come out of the gate like a pitbull and assume nobody is listening. I'll amend the writeup in the morning.
Good Luck.

[perdue3]

Thanks Shifty.