Stricken P-51 lands with help from a legend: Bob Hoover

[Rash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZBcapxGHjE

[Rash]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B09nWQHdRiU&feature=related

[saggs]

Bob Hoover is no doubt a supreme pilot.

But coming from 2 personal friends of mine who have sat at a dinner table with him at ICAS functions....  he's an elitist snob in real life. 

Just saying be careful who you chose as a role model, they aren't always what they seem to be. 

[B4Buster]

While I would never dis Hoover I was taught about yawing and using slipstream to lock the gear down as a 17 year old student.  I'd be rather surprised to find that a guy with enough experience to be giving rides in a Mustang didn't already know that trick.

I agree, but it makes for a good story. The conversation was probably a bit different than what the article is saying.

he must not have... Though i haven't flown a complex aircraft yet (will be flying an arrow probably next month), I can say that when i was in ground school for my commercial license, which includes flying a complex a/c, i never heard of using that technique though it makes sense.

The amount of experience and the kind of training the pilot of the P-51 had far exceeds that of what is needed for a complex endorsement.

[Golfer]

Bob Hoover is no doubt a supreme pilot.

But coming from 2 personal friends of mine who have sat at a dinner table with him at ICAS functions....  he's an elitist snob in real life. 

Just saying be careful who you chose as a role model, they aren't always what they seem to be. 

In my own personal experience and that of everyone I know who had interacted with Mr Hoover that's not the case. While we all have our off days/moments I can't call Mr Hoover anything other than the quintessential gentleman aviator.

Chuck Yeager on the other hand...

He pissed on a bush just outside our hangar (20 feet from a restroom) and the bush died. True story.

[Shuffler]

Bob Hoover is no doubt a supreme pilot.

But coming from 2 personal friends of mine who have sat at a dinner table with him at ICAS functions....  he's an elitist snob in real life. 

Just saying be careful who you chose as a role model, they aren't always what they seem to be. 

...but when your not looking for friends and just want to get down on the ground in one piece......

[flight17]

I agree, but it makes for a good story. The conversation was probably a bit different than what the article is saying.

The amount of experience and the kind of training the pilot of the P-51 had far exceeds that of what is needed for a complex endorsement.

your taking what I quoted and said out of context.... Colmbo said how he knew about It since he was 17... I said while I haven't flown a Complex aircraft yet, I have already done the ground school for it and never heard about using the yawing force to get the gear down. it obvious the pilot never did either since he didn't do it until bob said to which was some time after they discovered the gear fault.

[B4Buster]

your taking what I quoted and said out of context.... Colmbo said how he knew about It since he was 17... I said while I haven't flown a Complex aircraft yet, I have already done the ground school for it and never heard about using the yawing force to get the gear down. it obvious the pilot never did either since he didn't do it until bob said to which was some time after they discovered the gear fault.

It isn't out of context at all. You said you had never heard of it, and I merely stated that I'm sure the pilot of the P-51 has had far more training/experience than that of a normal complex endorsement (i.e. a ground course like you attended). I also don't think it's obvious the pilot didn't know that (yawing to get the gear to come down), but like I said...it makes for a good article. A seasoned vet helping out a "youngster" if you will...people like reading that stuff. I don't know this for sure...but surely someone who is trusted to fly a priceless (ok, not really) piece of machinery knows the "tricks of the trade".

Sorry if you felt my quoting your post was an attack on you - it was not.

[Puma44]

...but surely someone who is trusted to fly a priceless (ok, not really) piece of machinery

At upwards of 3 million a piece and about 175 left in the world still flying, 17 of which are dual control versions, close to priceless for most of us.  Especially if the pilot flying wasn't the owner, he was surely seeking all the experienced help he could draw on.

[B4Buster]

At upwards of 3 million a piece and about 175 left in the world still flying, 17 of which are dual control versions, close to priceless for most of us.  Especially if the pilot flying wasn't the owner, he was surely seeking all the experienced help he could draw on.

Yes, priceless to one of us, but is not much in comparison to these aircraft that are going for tens-of-millions. I would take a P-51 over a Falcon 900, unless of course I could sell the Falcon to buy multiple P-51s.

[flight17]

At upwards of 3 million a piece and about 175 left in the world still flying, 17 of which are dual control versions, close to priceless for most of us.  Especially if the pilot flying wasn't the owner, he was surely seeking all the experienced help he could draw on.

3 million? Ur getting ripped... Three are available right now for under two... Freshly restored... But I got the point lol

It isn't out of context at all. You said you had never heard of it, and I merely stated that I'm sure the pilot of the P-51 has had far more training/experience than that of a normal complex endorsement (i.e. a ground course like you attended). I also don't think it's obvious the pilot didn't know that (yawing to get the gear to come down), but like I said...it makes for a good article. A seasoned vet helping out a "youngster" if you will...people like reading that stuff. I don't know this for sure...but surely someone who is trusted to fly a priceless (ok, not really) piece of machinery knows the "tricks of the trade".

Sorry if you felt my quoting your post was an attack on you - it was not.

didn't take it as an attack... I'm just saying Colmbo at 17 knew it. At seventeen he was flying what? A p51? no.

 but I think he was flying something warbirdy if I remember correctly from previous threads, which sort of defeats my point. He was taught it early on, but by who?

My point is that you shouldn't be surprised that someone might not know something just because they are flying a p51. It's was not his personal aircraft, it was a museum's. Me just having a multi engine makes me qualified to fly right seat in a c-123. Now it's a little different because it's a two man crew plane, but I would still be flying it as pic for one leg of the trip with hardly any multi experience. The same could be true here.

[colmbo]

Colmbo at 17 knew it. At seventeen he was flying what? A p51? no.

 but I think he was flying something warbirdy if I remember correctly from previous threads, which sort of defeats my point. He was taught it early on, but by who?

I think I first got it just listening to "hangar flying" sessions around the airport.  I remember reading it in a POH but I can't remember for which airplane...might have just been a "how to" article in a magazine.

My point is that you shouldn't be surprised that someone might not know something just because they are flying a p51. It's was not his personal aircraft, it was a museum's.

With the exception of those who have more money than brains it's a pretty safe assumption that a guy giving for hire rides in a Mustang has good training and experience behind him.  What isn't surprising is that a young pilot today has no knowledge of the procedure.  Sadly there are a lot of 300 hour CFIs teaching and turning out 300 hour CFIs who teach and turn out 300 CFIs...none of whom have any experience or knowledge other than that needed to pass a checkride.

 

Me just having a multi engine makes me qualified to fly right seat in a c-123. Now it's a little different because it's a two man crew plane, but I would still be flying it as pic for one leg of the trip with hardly any multi experience.

Until you're type rated in the Provider you will not be flying as PIC, you may be the pilot flying -- huge difference.

[Golfer]

Like colmbo I'm sure I read it in a POH at some point.  I know it's taught on airplanes that have landing gear free-fall capability as any sideslip could prevent the upwind leg from locking. I don't remember which airplane it was but I think it was a Piper product I first learned it with. Arrow maybe? Seneca? Seminole? Regardless I know I learned it from around the campfire long before I ever put it to use in a training situation. You'll learn more talking about the various experiences others have had (hangar flying) than you ever will going soley on your own experience

Recurrent training sessions are like that today. What failures others have experienced in the last 6-12 months and what it ended up being are more valuable than knowing some trivia bonus stump the dummy question.

And perhaps greater than semantics, you know about it now. As do the rest who read the story. I'm willing to bet that the maneuvers Hoover suggested were more aggressive than that pilot would be accustomed to performing. Hitting that jammed lever arm of a landing gear with a bigger hammer so to speak.

[flight17]

Nvm

[Golfer]

nope, i will be logging PIC just as all of the other right seaters are currently... i forgot to say, the "captain" is a type rated (obviously) instructor...

You can log whatever you want. It's your logbook and it's only ink on paper.

There's a difference in being the PIC and logging PIC. There's a reason companies will specify what your actual Command/Captain/P1/Real PIC time vs time logged as a sole manipulator of the controls.  Doing so without a type rating, which is a prerequisite for a turbojet powered airplane or aircraft in excess of 12,500lbs is a show stopper. If you want PIC time in an aircraft requiring a type rating, you need a type rating. If you're being told differently, you're being misled. I'm very much willing to be proven wrong on that if you'd care to offer rebuttal.

When I fly assigned as an FO regardless of the credentials of the assigned PIC my flight time would be logged as SIC. It doesn't matter I'm a PIC in my airplane. If I hop in another 45 as a contractor with a company captain assigned as PIC, regardless of whether or not I am touching the controls I am the SIC. Same goes for the guy I fly with now. It doesn't matter I keep my CFI certificate current, he's the SIC as that's the seat assignment.  That's what goes in his company logbook.  Who signs the release, whose name is on the flight plan and who is ultimately responsible? That's the PIC and there is only one.

There are some flight departments out there that have the assigned PIC be the non flying pilot and the type rated assigned SIC be the flying pilot (sole manipulator) so in theory both can log PIC time. That's candyass, irrelevant and nothing but an ego stroke. It's their logbook though but anything you put in it needs to stand up to scrutiny. If I'm assigned to the trip in either role, that's the role I log.