Author Topic: Allied CiC After Action Review  (Read 1935 times)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24760
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 05:39:15 PM »
*
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:53:13 PM by Arlo »

Offline front

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
      • The old "WarBirds Tips Storage"...
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 06:08:51 PM »
Might want to let everybody know where the no-fly zone line is.  I had two 110s fighting me until I had to break off do to 6 min of fuel.  They chase me pass the 6 line into the no- fly zone, north of v100.  After landed at A40 to refuel I headed west when a 109 jumped me right at the 7 line.  Fighting to get away the annoying Luftwaffe kept attacking me follow by four other 109s to help him out.  It was a good fight but not sure if they ignor the no-fly zone or not.

The Axis no-fly zone shifts West at T-60 to the 3 line.

<S>!

front

Offline InCrypt

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 111
      • My personal Website.
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 06:49:55 PM »
{The Gun Fighters} AAR
The squad did well, over all. Though, I was unable to participate in the action. I will leave the details of the Southern AAR to those who were present. However, I did want to share my experience, as I found it unique – but true to real life events – and I’ve never heard of it happening in FSO, as we are a virtual event; I had to RTB due to mechanicals…

First, I wanted to say; Stellar,  Hats off to your Frame Orders! I had a… “moment” as I read them, and even saved off a copy in my archives for future reference. (I’ll be grabbing those links you posted in just a minute  :cool:) As members of {The Gun Fighters}, G3-MF, and VF-15 will attest, (the members of these three squads have some experience with me as an Operations Officer) I tend to produce some very involved, sometimes complex, and usually detailed OP-ORDERS. You have given me inspiration going forward – probably to the dismay of some members of my current squad {The Gun Fighters} LOL.
But alas, the best laid plans of mice and men.


And now, for the rest of the story…

Right out the gate things went wrong for me. Could it have been that my client finally released me from the days work at 9:15PM ? That servers were screwed up, as indicated by the fact that the Custom Arena wouldn’t let my squaddies in to practice, and I had to fight with it? It even reached out to the squad CO, as he was unable to join us because he couldn’t get the map to download?  Was it that the stars were mis-aligned, and the day was just meant to go astray? We may never know.
What we do know is that I buggered the launch time. When the arena clock was reset from 15:20 to 9:50, I missed out on it completely. So it was that I was already late when I reset our mission time and the squad launched at T+4 instead of T+2 as per the OP-ORD. to complicate matters, I had never joined my own mission!
Now I find my self in the sky a full minute behind everyone else, and fighting to catch up. Luckily, they were throttled back, and I was able to push forward and catch up. Fifteen minutes into the flight I was holding hands welded wing with the squad XO, and as I worked – harder than usual – to stay in formation with him, I noticed the first signs that something was wrong.
My Aileron trim was not working. I use manual trim, and my X-52 Pro was acting up. Not a problem, this has happened in the past where an axis will go wonky, and I’ve got to fix it. I’ve even got my sim-pit set up for just this type of eventuality. The USB hub where all my controllers connect is just in front of me, with in easy reach for a quick reset.
I set my auto-pilot, reached forward to the USB hub, pull the cable for my X-52 stick, and as normal, alt-tab out so I can set the Saitek Profile, I use the Saitek Profiler for ALL other functions, and every button is mapped, and the profiler goes off-line when I reset the stick mid-game like this.
I set the profiler, came back into the game and everything had gone crazy! My nose was pointed at the ground, I’m traveling at 500 mph, in a lazy right hand spiral, and I’m down 12 thousand feet from my last position!. As I try to get sorted I hear my squaddies talking about how I must have discoed, and another saying “no, because he’s still on channel.”
I try and yank the stick to rite my plane: nothing. Desperate, I pull back, still nothing. I mash the left peddle forward, Eureka! Control! Then my heart crashes, all I’ve got is rudder control – the one axis I didn’t pull from the hub. I think to myself “Self you’re a smart pilot, use the auto-pilot!” Quickly, I hit the auto-pilot button on my stick, wait a second or two for the plane to magically level out, but my lazy spiral continues!
Now, I’m starting to worry. I press the tit on my stick for my TX button to both see if I can raise the squad and let them know what’s happening, and also to see if ANY functions work. I get no response. The stick is dead. Then I realize, I keep a keyboard over my monitor as an over-head console. I hit the X, and to my immense relief the auto pilot engages. Phew, I got the bird strait and level.
I want to contact my squad, but my sticks TX button is not working, so I once again have to use the keyboard, but I am able to transmit. I alert them that I’ve got a technical problem, that I’m trying to get control of my aircraft, and then I start working the problem. I pull the plug to reset the stick again. I gave the stick a full fifteen seconds to detect, then gave it a tentative test.
I’m amazed, and rewarded, It works! I once again have positive control of the airplane. Then my heart crashes again as I begin to test out other functions.  I quickly find out that primary control is All I have. Pitch, roll, and rudder – that’s it. I don’t panic yet, my stick always requires me to reset the profiler when I unplug it. Once more I alt-tab out and set it.
When I return I’m relieved that at least this time the plane was strait and level, just as I left it. A quick test of the functions, however, show that I’ve still got nothing but the primary flight controls. All secondary functions, flaps, gear, radio, navigation (The clip board map), even guns, they are all off-line.
I use the console keyboard to alert the squad of my situation, and that I’m combat in-effective. They advise that I should turn back, and RTB to save the plane. So I turn around and for the next hour I slowly fly back to the base I launched from (never knew how far that air-spawn was from the base!)
I spend the whole flight back trying different things to see if I can sort out the problem, and get the HOTAS functions back on-line. My frustration mounts as I try everything short of rebooting the system, or dumping the game to get it back. I even let my wife have a hand – like plugging in the USB in a ‘special’ way would make it work,. But alas, it was all futile. I will say, however, that I felt like I was in a real plane, with a real problem, trying to milk my crippled aircraft back to base. I want to save that plane!
During the flight back I was able to use my console-keyboard, mounted over  my monitor, for the critical secondary aviation, navigation, and communication functions. Thank god for the redundancy I built into my pit – it was a real ‘Apolo-13’ type feeling. LOL

In the end I was able to safely land and tower out. I rebooted my box, and everything was working normally again. Though, I will start saving for a new stick – another X-52 if I have to, or a Warthog if I can!
Buddist proverb: "When the Student is ready, the teacher will appear."

Since I have no teacher I know I'm still working on being ready...

Offline AKP

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1294
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 08:24:54 PM »
Hehe... I got your IM during FSO about loss of control InCrypt... unfortunately I was in my guns at the time swatting at 190's as they buzzed past me so I wasnt able to respond.  Glad you made it back.  Sounds like you had your own personal battle going on last night.

Had something similar happen to me once during an FSO... my stick came unplugged during maneuvering... so I am familiar with the downward spiral and panic you are talking about.  Something about FSO makes it all the more real.

 :salute

***G3-MF***

Offline oakranger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8380
      • http://www.slybirds.com/
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 08:25:35 PM »
The Axis no-fly zone shifts West at T-60 to the 3 line.

<S>!

front

Sorry, over looked at that part.  Thanks.   :salute

Never less it was a good fight between the two 110s and five 109s vs me. Wished I had more fuel while fighting the 110s, would have added two more kills on my list.    :D
Oaktree

56th Fighter group

Offline Viper61

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 585
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 10:14:59 PM »
325th VFG AAR adder:

Great plan and a very nice set of orders.  A little to large in file size though I had trouble getting them LOL

The 325th VFG had the "Intruder" Mission in the south.  We upped 7 AC and split into 3 flights and went about setting off radars everywhere the bombers weren't.  I keep in contact with guys that could see the bomber streams and we adjusted as the bombers went deeper into AXIS territory.

What we tried to do was make the radars in the south all flash in a north south line as the Main Effort moved deeper.  It appeared to work from my end and I know we ran into a few scouting AXIS AC who went out to see what was going on.

I'd like to hear from the AXIS side that defended the southern targets if this tactic worked of flashing a lot of radars.

Another fun mission and we all enjoyed it.  <S>

Offline UncleKurt

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 10:26:00 PM »
 :joystick:
InCrypt,
Sounds like you tried to put your toothpaste back in the tube??? What HE said!

oakranger,
When I went back through the logs there wasn't a whole lot there. The no fly line did shift west at T+60,
so there you have it. Where ever you go, there you are...

Suffice it to say, a very interesting frame with some unplanned challenges. It was an honor to fly with you all!
 :salute
I Like pizza!
I Hate red airplanes!
Leave my sheep alone!
What an axle!<br/Do Not Impose to Bully Around Me!

Offline oakranger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8380
      • http://www.slybirds.com/
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 10:40:25 PM »
:joystick:


oakranger,
When I went back through the logs there wasn't a whole lot there. The no fly line did shift west at T+60,
so there you have it. Where ever you go, there you are...


Yea, i did not know it shifted.  I kept hearing people saying line 6 but nothing about it shifting.  Thanks.
Oaktree

56th Fighter group

Offline surfinn

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 733
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2012, 08:18:48 AM »
The Axis no-fly zone shifts West at T-60 to the 3 line.

<S>!

front

I thought it was the 4 line not the 3 line

Offline Reschke

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7724
      • VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers"
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2012, 10:37:50 AM »
After thinking about what I am going to say here for a few days let me be the devils advocate on this one. I am not here to argue with you and suggest your plans stunk to high heaven; nor am I here to blow smoke up your skirt and tell you that your poop doesn't stink either.

I think you spent so much time on the orders and getting it right (by your own admission) that you overlooked the fact that simple orders would have been sufficient for accomplishing the task. Instead you chose to use the ballet in the virtual skies to accomplish the simple tasks of using your escorts to blast a hole in the air defenses and then bull rush your bombers into the target and then have them run like hell for home. The two different IP's and Targets for the southern strike were what confused me when I read the orders but I didn't think I was going to be participating so I never voiced a concern or brought up the question to the rest of VF-17 command staff.

The best laid plans never survive going operational; no matter how many times you rehearse them or have meetings to talk about what the previous meetings discussed in order to prepare for the next meeting...aka "backbriefs". Again I think you did a good job putting the plan to paper but some how it got lost in translation to at least one squadron....VF-17. Otherwise we would have been on target, on time.  Also we would have had more fun instead of bombing the baby milk factory and now laughing about it just because that is what we do in VF-17.
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
"I'm baaaaccccckkk!"

Offline Nefarious

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15858
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2012, 11:06:18 AM »
Also we would have had more fun instead of bombing the baby milk factory and now laughing about it just because that is what we do in VF-17.

 :rofl
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline front

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
      • The old "WarBirds Tips Storage"...
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2012, 04:43:00 PM »
I thought it was the 4 line not the 3 line

Line in gold on the map:



<S>!

front

Offline Stellaris

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 402
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2012, 08:01:17 AM »
Reschke brings up an important point, and he is correct in that a very brief table of squadrons and targets would have taken less reading-in to understand.  However I don't think don't think orders complexity is the issue here.  A51 isn't on the target list - pretty simple.

However as Kurt pointed out, the map is crowded in that area, and if you just use the map it looks like A51 is Stuttgart.  While it is true that no plan survives contact with the enemy, it was not the enemy that messed us up here.  It was an easy-to-make error that didn't get caught - even though Branch took the trouble to verify the ambiguity.  Shorter orders would not have changed the map.

These errors happen, and this error belongs to no single person.  However it is the commander's responsibility to make sure his/her orders are understood, and backbriefs are the tool that accomplish this.  I didn't specify backbriefs in orders.  I should have.  Mea (again) culpa.

Cheers!

Paul

Offline Reschke

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7724
      • VF-17 "The Jolly Rogers"
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2012, 09:29:10 AM »
Yep as I said....sometimes you can't see the forest because of all the trees.
Buckshot
Reschke from March 2001 till tour 146
Founder and CO VF-17 Jolly Rogers September 2002 - December 2006
"I'm baaaaccccckkk!"

Offline branch37

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1831
      • VF-17 Jolly Rogers
Re: Allied CiC After Action Review
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2012, 10:41:26 PM »
It happens every once in a while, and this certainly wont be the last time it happens.  Stellar, this was your first time being CiC correct?  I have always noticed that in a crowded map where a strat is a target, a grid refrence usually always avoids confusion.   :salute

CMDR Branch37
VF-17 Jolly Rogers  C.O.