First Industrialized War

[Rob52240]

I've heard historians state that the first Industrialized war was WW1
I've also heard historians say that it was the American Civil War.

Any thoughts?  I believe it's the Civil War since it utilized Railroads, machine guns, repeating rifles, telecommunications, a submarine, the 1st Dreadnought and some other stuff that the first world war had 50 or so years later. .

[titanic3]

Yea, Civil War would be my choice too. Technically, Industrial Revolution already occurrd before the Civil War making every war after it an "industrialized" one.

[Getback]

Didn't they use some of the same guns from the Civil War in WWI?

[Penguin]

No, they used bolt-action rifles in WWI, but all manner of funky actions in the civil war.

-Penguin

[Tupac]

No, they used bolt-action rifles in WWI, but all manner of funky actions in the civil war.

-Penguin

Rolling block, muzzleloader, and lever action. Those arent that far-fetched. Then there is whatever the hell the gatling gun is.

[Raptor]

I would say that the civil war was the first war to use industrialized weapons. However WW1 was the first war to be fully industrialized.

[Rob52240]

Not fully, they still used a lot of horses in WW1 and WW2\

here's a nice BBC bit on the gatling gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtrX9vKPqtg&feature=related

I saw one on Pawn Stars that shot 37mm circa 1800s.  Did they make any in the 50+mm range?
Found video here:
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/08/09/rick-tests-out-a-revolving-cannon-from-the-1870s-on-pawn-stars-video/

[Raptor]

Not fully, they still used a lot of horses in WW1 and WW2\

here's a nice BBC bit on the gatling gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtrX9vKPqtg&feature=related

I saw one on Pawn Stars that shot 37mm circa 1800s.  Did they make any in the 50+mm range?
Found video here:
http://www.aoltv.com/2011/08/09/rick-tests-out-a-revolving-cannon-from-the-1870s-on-pawn-stars-video/

By that logic, WW2 wasn't an industrialized war.

[FLOTSOM]

they seem to be confussing the term of "industrialized" with the term "mechanized"...

in base words define what you are asking so that everyone is on the same page.

[Rob52240]

I think mechanization was a bi-product of industrialization.  I was thinking in terms of industrialization.

Now that link of the Hotchkiss revolving cannon isn't playing worth a crap.

[VonMessa]

Civil War.

Think railroads.

It was the first time in history that the speed of the deployment of troops changed from "how quickly they could march" to "how fast is the train"

It changed from weeks/months to mere days.

Same goes for the supply lines.

The North had miles and miles of railroad, much much more than the South did.

Lincoln exercised government control of the railroads, the Southern railways stayed privatized.

There was also the use of the telegraph (also running parallel to the railroad tracks) which allowed Lincoln to call the shots almost directly (much to the chagrin of his Generals) since comms did not depend upon messengers, anymore.

The Civil War was the first conflict that used "industry" as a part of the war effort.

[PR3D4TOR]

Railroads and what actions rifles used has little bearing on industrial warfare.

"One of the main features of Industrial warfare is the concept of "total war". The term was coined during World War I by Erich Ludendorff (and again in his 1935 book "Total War"), which called for the complete mobilization and subordination of all resources, including policy and social systems, to the German war effort. It has also come to mean waging warfare with absolute ruthlessness, and its most identifiable legacy today has been the reintroduction of civilians and civilian infrastructure as targets in destroying a country's ability to engage in war."

There is some merit to the claim that the American Civil War was was the first total war, which Sherman called "hard war", but in contrast to later wars, the damage done by Sherman was almost entirely limited to property destruction. Full industrial warfare however it was not.

[Rob52240]

I think we also left out interchangeable parts.

[PFactorDave]

I think we also left out interchangeable parts.

If that is the yardstick, you would have to go farther back into history.

[FLOTSOM]

If that is the yardstick, you would have to go farther back into history.

that is a major part of why i was asking him to define what he was talking about....