Author Topic: 1946  (Read 553 times)

Offline Rich52

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1946
« on: April 01, 2012, 11:45:41 AM »
This thread is meant to be honest and not a put down thread to the owners of AH. I Honestly believe if they had foregone the WW1 effort, closed down and not put the modeling effort into EWA and MWA aircraft, and instead modeled a 1946 arena. That they would have double the paying customers then they have now. I say this out of the years Ive signed on and the numbers Ive seen in EWA/MWA and WW1. Mostly the first two are made up of a small bunch who wish to see their name in lights as the leaders "somewhere's", and yes there are a few purists who basically enjoy early war flight. They are very few tho. All of us must agree the 3 arenas get very little use. Most of all in the last year.

And the actual playground is not AH's fault. They are fine arenas with nice airplanes, and all 3 of them have the juice to be as much fun as the LWA. The fact is however the interest just isnt there.

And now it seems that every week there is a RIP thread and not enough squeeky little voices on the vox. Lets face it, the WW2 enthusiasts are dieing out. I almost joined them last spring but pulled thru. At the least we can say "most" of WW2 flight is made up of players in their 40's or older. And were a dieing breed. Thats just nature. And the nature of History. The ones who actually did it are mostly gone. The ones who heard the stories directly from them "us" are going or will be gone. And our kids are playing Warcraft or B-3/COD. Can anyone truly say the WW2 fight/fight genre has even held its own in the last few years ?

No a 1946 arena could not be modeled on what happened in actual history cause it "didnt" happen in actual history. Instead "imagine" that it had and what aircraft would have filled the sky's if it did. The Horten 229, the Bearcat, Meteor, B-36s, LA-9s.... Im not an expert on the "what might have beens" but could envisions the new airframes, and advanced varients of existing ones, had the war gone on one more year and if the criteria for game inclusion was relaxed for what in fact would be an arena of the imagination. And indeed what would the words "squadron size and saw actual combat in a combat theatre against other planes" mean in such an arena?

I know all of this isnt practical and probably will never happen. But at the least I'd like to see further inclusions be late war airframes of the type that would create excitement in the game. Some might say the B-29 was a waste of resources but I say that no matter what its stats and usage says the fact that noob players see one sitting in the Hangar creates excitement and makes them reach for their credit card. Perhaps a re-thinking of inclusion criteria for new airplanes is in order as well, as in "airframes that actually flew before 15 Aug. 1945".

No disrespect to the early war crowd. I understand where you are coming from as well. And I do respect your wish for early war, and niche, airframes too. :salute

BTW We still need a fracking Soviet bomber :bolt:
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Offline Karnak

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Re: 1946
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 11:56:17 AM »
Misread the OP a bit.

No, 1946 would be crap.  All you have for 1946 is American, British and Russian aircraft.  There is no performance data for any of the German or Japanese aircraft planned for 1946.  The closest you get is adding in the Do335.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 11:58:51 AM by Karnak »
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Offline Arlo

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Re: 1946
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 12:33:21 PM »
All you have for 1946 is American, British and Russian aircraft.  There is no performance data for any of the German or Japanese aircraft planned for 1946.  The closest you get is adding in the Do335.

Alternate reality (of which one may argue is already part of Aces High's virtual reality) would be an extrapolation in any case. The war did not make it to 1946 (or 1947 or 1948, etc.). However, many have extrapolated from the data at hand (of which there is actually physical data) what may have progressed should certain events had or had not come to pass. Japanese jets are part of such as well as other aircraft that were at least on the drawing board. Having said that, the factors impacting what came to pass would have had to change years before ... and, in doing so, could possibly have negated the need for the wonder weapons, entirely. Such changed events could have even ended the war sooner and not in favor of one or more of the Allies.

Alternate reality .... virtual reality. Ace's High is indeed both .... but it's not really part of giving the players a what-if WWII to fight all over again. Even within the spectrum of events, it's just a difference of outcome of that one event.

If Ace's High could be used as the platform for (and I know I've said this before) a player organized and run 'Axis and Allies' type of strategy game where respective sides can somehow make research and development decisions (based on how well they manage and maintain not only strategic advantage but logistics and resources) then AHII would do well to model more 'what-if' aircraft (even if their performance and design is based on extrapolation).

Eh, just inserting ramblings from my earlier viewpoint of AHII on a broader scale with an actual war involved with all it's elements.

Offline Butcher

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Re: 1946
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 05:19:52 PM »
Misread the OP a bit.

No, 1946 would be crap.  All you have for 1946 is American, British and Russian aircraft.  There is no performance data for any of the German or Japanese aircraft planned for 1946.  The closest you get is adding in the Do335.

One reason I've been against the 46 arena is this reason exactly. Some are going to point to wikipedia of course and come back with false numbers as usual, but in reality the closest to 1946 was allies vs russia at this point, in which you still have
piston engine fighters due to range (jets in reality carried far to little ordnance and had to short of range where in aces high range would not be an issue) which leads to a handful of small jets vs jets and a few late war era piston fighters.

How does someone model a FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II? Technically it was being developed when the war ended in Germany as a 1946 fighter, instead was built in Argentina after the war and flew in 1950 - what if scenario it could of been built in 1946?
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Offline bc21

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Re: 1946
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 11:18:37 AM »
I would rather see a "Korea" arena or "Vietnam" arena. Both actualy happend.

Offline Arlo

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Re: 1946
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 11:44:47 AM »
I would rather see a "Korea" arena or "Vietnam" arena. Both actualy happend.

I can dig Korea. Vietnam, not so much. I'd rather have more guns on and less bombing a jungle 90% of the time.

Offline curry1

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Re: 1946
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 12:27:03 PM »
Vietnam arena would be way different to what we are accustomed to.   Think of all of the systems we would have to manage.  Sounds more like DCS.
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Offline perdue3

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Re: 1946
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 02:20:39 PM »
How about we take all that time it would take to create these things to make some new aircraft?
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Offline bc21

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Re: 1946
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 03:36:55 PM »
How about we take all that time it would take to create these things to make some new aircraft?

Airplanes airplanes...... I want a Sub first. :rock

Offline Westy

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Re: 1946
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 05:52:37 PM »
How far back do you rewrite history for the Axis? How many "ifs"
are you gonna use?

Cause WW2 in 46 still ends as it did in 45...


Offline Rich52

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Re: 1946
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 05:52:42 PM »
How about we take all that time it would take to create these things to make some new aircraft?

I thought that was what I was suggesting.
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Offline Rich52

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Re: 1946
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 06:40:48 PM »
How far back do you rewrite history for the Axis? How many "ifs"
are you gonna use?

Cause WW2 in 46 still ends as it did in 45...

(Image removed from quote.)

If it flew at all and was produced at all then its in. Thats the criteria for 1946. And it wouldnt include only German test airplanes but also advanced versions of the Hellcat, Spitfire, The Tigercat, Skyraider, F4U-5, BA-349 viper, G-8n Renzen bomber, SAAB J-21, the list is huge and these are aircraft that actually flew or were being tested. Had the war gone on one more year they would have seen operational use.

How the war ended doesnt matter in the game now and it wouldnt matter if we had an advanced arena either. Its still Rooks, Nits, Bishes, there will never be nukes, and the Maps are already made. All thats needed are the aircraft. And many of them we already have. Surely the late war birds we already have would see heavy use in the '46 arena.

I realize none of this is going to happen but a relaxation of inclusion criteria for the LWA is certainly possible. Anything is better then modeling planes like the Storch which wouldnt have ANY stats if players didnt game the game by bailing as soon as they launched in order to shoot IB troops in the head with their .45 handguns. :huh
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