Collisions

[caldera]

The 1k+ readers of this topic seem to disagree. Skuzzy can lock the topic anytime he feels it's a dead issue ... Some one will just start it again in a week or two ... which should tell you something ...

Skuzzy's explanation could not be clearer nor make any more sense.  The collision model is perfectly logical and fair to all players.  Your idea doesn't make any sense to people who normally try to avoid collisions.  Either you are not reading the explanations, are a head trauma victim or deliberately trying to troll here.  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is trollage.

[Skuzzy]

Sure you can - Average Ping Rates (both players), Between Low and High rates, you have a rough approximation.

How are you going to know the average ping rate between the player, server, and you?

And that = Unhappy Customers ... not a good way to get rich ...

And your idea of punishing the player who successfully avoids a collision is going to make them happy?


Early in the thread I asked you the following question:

So I understand it. You are suggesting your plane takes damage when someone else does not take time to avoid the collision, but you did. Is that right?

You answered "No".  So you have changed your mind about that?  You do want your plane to take damage when the other player does not avoid the collision.  And in some way, you think that is a better solution.

You clearly avoid the collision, and you take damage.  That is going to make you a happy camper?  If so, you are very much in the minority.

sooo a one plane collision is like the sound of one hand clapping?

It is the only fair option available.  Tell me, if you avoid a collision with another plane, do you feel a slight sense of relief and accomplishment?  How do you feel when the other guy does not manage to avoid that collision and takes damage?

Would it make you feel better to have your plane damaged after you avoided the collision?

You have to stop thinking collisions work like they do in the real world in order to understand the limitations of networking thousands of computers together from all over the world.  Once you understand every computer has every plane in a slightly different location, it can start to make sense.  Due to the time displacement from computer to computer, HiTech made a design choice which only allows you and your computer to assess damage to your plane and to no other plane.  This prevents others from having that control.

Quite frankly, the system is about as simple as it can get.  It is all about what is on your computer.  

You cannot cause damage to another players plane by colliding with it because your computer is only going to assess damage to your plane.

Now take that statement and apply it to every player/computer in the game and see if that makes it clearer.  If that does not make it clearer, then ask why and we can go forward.

---
EVZ, I would really like to hear how you think collisions currently work in the following scenarios.

1)  You collide and take damage and the other plane flies away.
2)  You do not collide but the other plane takes damage and you fly away.
3)  You both collide and take damage.

Please be as detailed as possible.

I know you are sure how they work.  I am just trying to find a baseline to work from so I can understand a perspective that almost seems irrational.  I am sure it is not intended that way, so there has to be some perspective mismatch in addressing this particular topic.

Until that is fully understood, it is going to be difficult to reach any accord.

[EVZ]

sooo a one plane collision is like the sound of one hand clapping?

Oooooooh ... You're GOOD !!!

[RTHolmes]

EVZ, I would really like to hear how you think collisions currently work in the following scenarios.

1)  You collide and take damage and the other plane flies away.
2)  You do not collide but the other plane takes damage and you fly away.
3)  You both collide and take damage.

Please be as detailed as possible.

lets hear your 3 answers then EVZ ...

[EVZ]

Would it make you feel better to have your plane damaged after you avoided the collision?

It would make me feel that the GAME had realistically modelled a mid-air collision ... I can live with that ...

You have to stop thinking collisions work like they do in the real world

I'm well aware that they DON'T ... in a nutshell, THAT'S what people are complaining about and WISHING you would change. You don't seem to be having much luck convincing them to THINK what you want them to. Aside from the 10-15 people you've got here in this forum I know of virtually NO ONE that "LIKES" the collision system.

EVZ, I would really like to hear how you think collisions currently work in the following scenarios.

1)  You collide and take damage and the other plane flies away.
2)  You do not collide but the other plane takes damage and you fly away.
3)  You both collide and take damage.

There isn't any detail required, I think the way the current collision model works is WRONG in #1 & #2. I don't think it's unreasonable, it's a sensible and practical system ... That no one likes.

Until that is fully understood, it is going to be difficult to reach any accord.

I don't think any agreement is possible, I and every other paying customer ACCEPT the situation ... Most of us don't like it .. If you want people to LIKE IT ... Change it.

[Wiley]

I don't think any agreement is possible, I and every other paying customer ACCEPT the situation ... Most of us don't like it .. If you want people to LIKE IT ... Change it.

No agreement is possible, you are right.  The reason is because you want magic, either by the clients predicting the future, or by impossibly fast net times.  Good luck with that.

Wiley.

[ink]

It would make me feel that the GAME had realistically modelled a mid-air collision ... I can live with that ...
I'm well aware that they DON'T ... in a nutshell, THAT'S what people are complaining about and WISHING you would change. You don't seem to be having much luck convincing them to THINK what you want them to. Aside from the 10-15 people you've got here in this forum I know of virtually NO ONE that "LIKES" the collision system.
There isn't any detail required, I think the way the current collision model works is WRONG in #1 & #2. I don't think it's unreasonable, it's a sensible and practical system ... That no one likes.
I don't think any agreement is possible, I and every other paying customer ACCEPT the situation ... Most of us don't like it .. If you want people to LIKE IT ... Change it.

hahahahah

I am sorry but you are wrong..... very few people "dont like it"  far less then you are trying to portray .....far far less....

the collision model is the best there is considering the circumstances...you keep saying "two planes crash" they should both go down.....well for one we have proof that is not always true in the RW....

for 2 this is not the real world
for 3 it is NOT just 2 planes flying against each other, there are 4, the 2 on your end the 2 on your opponents end.

learn how to fight and you wont generally worry about collisions  

 

[Skuzzy]

Actually ink, the game works just like real life does.

In the real world, when two planes collide in the air, they both take damage.

In the game, when two planes collide on both front ends, they both take damage.


In real life, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.

In the game, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.


In real life, if a plane collides with an object, it takes damage.

In the game, if a plane collides with an object, it takes damage.

1)  You collide and take damage and the other plane flies away.
2)  You do not collide but the other plane takes damage and you fly away.
3)  You both collide and take damage.

There isn't any detail required, I think the way the current collision model works is WRONG in #1 & #2.

Please explain what you think is happening in #1 and #2, for you to call it wrong.  Please be detailed.

[RTHolmes]

There isn't any detail required, I think the way the current collision model works is WRONG in #1 & #2. I don't think it's unreasonable, it's a sensible and practical system ... That no one likes.

if you truly understood how latency effects AH and how collisions work, you would be able to answer skuzzy's 3 questions easily, with just a short sentence for each one.

[coombz]

In real life, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.

In the game, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.

Well, I've never really had an axe to grind about the way collisions work in AH, but I made a short film of an incident that happened this morning which seems to contradict what you say here Skuzzy

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sij58xnan9i2lld

Salient points:

1. On my front end I do not collide (I checked from my cockpit view and from an external view in the film viewer to make sure)
2. The collision message states only that Blackjax collided with me, and not that I collided with him
3. His HO shot attempt missed me
4. My engine died after he collided with me

This isn't the only time that I have had a 'the other player collided with you' message only, but still had my plane ruined

However I still don't really have a problem with the AH collision system, the way I see it, I should have got out of the way of the HO attempt     But still, this example clearly contradicts the way the collision system supposedly works

[ink]

Actually ink, the game works just like real life does.

In the real world, when two planes collide in the air, they both take damage.

In the game, when two planes collide on both front ends, they both take damage.


In real life, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.

In the game, if a pilot avoids a collision, he flies away.


In real life, if a plane collides with an object, it takes damage.

In the game, if a plane collides with an object, it takes damage.


Please explain what you think is happening in #1 and #2, for you to call it wrong.  Please be detailed.

not 100% every time as some have posted pics showing otherwise......as far as 2 planes colliding in the RW....I know its a very rare thing for one to fly away.....so we cant say Every single time 2 planes collide in the real world both go down.

ok wait a minute I see you said "take damage" ok that I can say yes...but they don't always crash and pilots die....that's what he wants....that both planes crash and pilots die......

he just cant wrap his mind around the fact that there is 4 planes not just 2.......if he would learn to merge, that will avoid  99% of his collisions.....

and besides the fact when you have a tight knife fight, collision happen, just the way it is.

[hitech]

Quote from: Skuzzy on Today at 06:36:15 AM
You have to stop thinking collisions work like they do in the real world.

I'm well aware that they DON'T ... in a nutshell, THAT'S what people are complaining about and WISHING you would change.

Obviously you do not really wish to accept the fact , that it is absolutely impossible to model the real world with respect to collisions.

You wish that a plane that does not touch anything be damaged in a collision. But at the same time you say you want us to change things like the real world.

I assume it is obvious that in the real world, a plane that does not touch anything but air can not be damaged in a collision? And hence damaging the plane in a collision that does not happen,would not match the real world.

So I can only see a few possibilities for your thought process.

1. You wish to ignore the realities of time lag.
2. You do not understand the realities of time lag.
3. You understand and accept , but still think it is possible to defy physics.
4. You die a lot in collisions, and wish to try hide your true motive of just wishing the other guy would die also.
5. You die a lot in collisions, but always think it is the other guys fault, and hence he should die also.
6. You wish to be intentionally obtuse and are just trolling.
7. You do understand, but you do not have the ability to view how other people would react from dieing when they did not collide with anything.
8. You are a progressive, and believe just because you wish it so, it can be done.

HiTech

[FLS]

Well, I've never really had an axe to grind about the way collisions work in AH, but I made a short film of an incident that happened this morning which seems to contradict what you say here Skuzzy

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sij58xnan9i2lld

Salient points:

1. On my front end I do not collide (I checked from my cockpit view and from an external view in the film viewer to make sure)
2. The collision message states only that Blackjax collided with me, and not that I collided with him
3. His HO shot attempt missed me
4. My engine died after he collided with me

This isn't the only time that I have had a 'the other player collided with you' message only, but still had my plane ruined

However I still don't really have a problem with the AH collision system, the way I see it, I should have got out of the way of the HO attempt     But still, this example clearly contradicts the way the collision system supposedly works

I believe you're saying that you didn't see him shoot your engine on your end. It's likely he shot your engine on his end before colliding with you. You wouldn't necessarily see that on your film.

[hitech]

Well, I've never really had an axe to grind about the way collisions work in AH, but I made a short film of an incident that happened this morning which seems to contradict what you say here Skuzzy

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?sij58xnan9i2lld

Salient points:

1. On my front end I do not collide (I checked from my cockpit view and from an external view in the film viewer to make sure)
2. The collision message states only that Blackjax collided with me, and not that I collided with him
3. His HO shot attempt missed me
4. My engine died after he collided with me

This isn't the only time that I have had a 'the other player collided with you' message only, but still had my plane ruined

However I still don't really have a problem with the AH collision system, the way I see it, I should have got out of the way of the HO attempt     But still, this example clearly contradicts the way the collision system supposedly works

How old is the film? Currently the "You have collided" will show in the film, in previous versions it would not.

If you didn't collide, that leaves only 1 choice, the bullets hit you.

HiTech

[The Fugitive]

I've been leaning towards #6 for awhile now in this thread.