amd vs intel for education

[cattb]

Wife and I are putting our niece through college.

She will be attending 4 years for IT networking. Question is, we will be buying her a computer. I am sure she will be using virtualization.

I am interested in opinion for either a cheaper Intel dual core or a AMD Phenom or possibly a cheaper FX or a AMD APU quad. I am not sure of all the virtualization she could run into.

I see the AMD APU supports virtualization, I am starting to lean this way.

As long a the cpu supports virtualization this is good enough?

I am on a budget and this computer is used for eduacation and development, not gaming.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Wife and I are putting our niece through college.

She will be attending 4 years for IT networking. Question is, we will be buying her a computer. I am sure she will be using virtualization.

I am interested in opinion for either a cheaper Intel dual core or a AMD Phenom or possibly a cheaper FX or a AMD APU quad. I am not sure of all the virtualization she could run into.

I see the AMD APU supports virtualization, I am starting to lean this way.

As long a the cpu supports virtualization this is good enough?

I am on a budget and this computer is used for eduacation and development, not gaming.

Any old computer will do for learning purposes as long as it has enough ram to run the virtual machine(s). It doesn't matter if it supports Intel or AMD virtualization - the virtual machines will just run a tad bit slower without them and that doesn't matter since she's not using her school machine for production.

Oh, and if you want a problem free education machine for her, get her a mac with a virtualized windows. She'll thank you for it later.

Macs are easy to use, they have very few malwares and viruses and are based on unix - she will have several advantages like being able to ssh directly to her virtual machines or other machines without 3rd party tools in between.

[Skuzzy]

Macs are easy to use

That is a very, very subjective statement.  I had the recent displeasure of trying to tie my Wife's Macbook Pro into our LAN and that was a freaking nightmare.  Trying to find documentation was a pain the butt.  Took several hours to find the information in order to find out how to get the damn thing on the network.

I was ready to toss it out the 5th floor window.

And what is with the BS of requiring a login ID and password in order to do updates for the OS?  She also manage to put a CD of some application in the machine and it is still there.  I have not found a way to get it out yet.  Although I am leaning really hard towards using a crowbar.

For all of you who have not had the displeasure of using a Macbook Pro, THERE IS NO EJECT button for the CD/DV player!  How intuitive is that!?!?!

Sorry, but after having to deal with that piece of junk, and all the stupid Windows apps they screw up (iTunes, Quicktime...), I am pretty damn frustrated with anything related to Apple.  Phrases like "so intuitive,..easy to use" are absolute hog wash.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

That is a very, very subjective statement.  I had the recent displeasure of trying to tie my Wife's Macbook Pro into our LAN and that was a freaking nightmare.  Trying to find documentation was a pain the butt.  Took several hours to find the information in order to find out how to get the damn thing on the network.

I was ready to toss it out the 5th floor window.

And what is with the BS of requiring a login ID and password in order to do updates for the OS?  She also manage to put a CD of some application in the machine and it is still there.  I have not found a way to get it out yet.  Although I am leaning really hard towards using a crowbar.

For all of you who have not had the displeasure of using a Macbook Pro, THERE IS NO EJECT button for the CD/DV player!  How intuitive is that!?!?!

Sorry, but after having to deal with that piece of junk, and all the stupid Windows apps they screw up (iTunes, Quicktime...), I am pretty damn frustrated with anything related to Apple.  Phrases like "so intuitive,..easy to use" are absolute hog wash.

LOL! OSX has a very simple networking section in the settings. What was your problem there? It contains all the standard functions. Just choose 'ethernet' then go to advanced functions and you have all your basic configuration options starting from DHCP to manual DNS/IP settings.

Macbooks and iMacs have had an eject button for several years, how old is your Mac? It's on the top right corner of the keyboard.

The biggest problem with using mac is that people try to use them like windows. Obviously that is doing it wrong

I cursed OSX at the beginning, too. I was used to windows. Now I get shivers at the thought of having to use windows as a main machine. Yikes!

[Noir]

depends if you are rich or not, a windows machine will get the job done for half the price.
We deploy Lenovo laptops at work...expensive but reliable and powerful.

On the CPU front, if it's strictly work a cheap AMD Fusion laptop will suffice, So will a Core i3. The core i3 is usually more expensive, but more powerful.

One good advice is to define your need, and budget. Screen size wanted? Is battery life important? Is the weight important?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

depends if you are rich or not, a windows machine will get the job done for half the price.

We deploy Lenovo laptops at work...expensive but reliable and powerful.

Sure it will do the job. But a Mac will save her a ton of trouble. If (read: when) she manages to get her windows corrupted or malware laced, it's a few seconds restore from a virtual image and back to running. Practically no worry about viruses, built in unix style shell... A Mac is perfect for anyone who has to deal with unix or linux machines remotely. It has the basic functions of unix, yet no hassle of a native linux desktop.

[Skuzzy]

LOL! OSX has a very simple networking section in the settings. What was your problem there? It contains all the standard functions. Just choose 'ethernet' then go to advanced functions and you have all your basic configuration options starting from DHCP to manual DNS/IP settings.
(Image removed from quote.)
Macbooks and iMacs have had an eject button for several years, how old is your Mac? It's on the top right corner of the keyboard.
(Image removed from quote.)
The biggest problem with using mac is that people try to use them like windows. Obviously that is doing it wrong

I cursed OSX at the beginning, too. I was used to windows. Now I get shivers at the thought of having to use windows as a main machine. Yikes!

That is all well and good.  Now show me how you found that information?  That is what was so frustrating.  I am used to dealing with software I have never used before.  I do not mind digging through documents or reading help pages.

One answer I got was, "If you cannot configure the network, you are a moron and should not be allowed to use a computer.". This was in asking where the network configuration panel was.

Much like your arrogant response actually.  I just chalk that up to the Apple culture.

[Noir]

Sure it will do the job. But a Mac will save her a ton of trouble. If (read: when) she manages to get her windows corrupted or malware laced, it's a few seconds restore from a virtual image and back to running. Practically no worry about viruses, built in unix style shell... A Mac is perfect for anyone who has to deal with unix or linux machines remotely. It has the basic functions of unix, yet no hassle of a native linux desktop.

Windows can restore an OS image in a few clicks too. If she studies networks she will probably use putty as a shell to program routers and stuff, the shell of the local machine does not impact anything.

Also if you have issues with a windows machine you don't have to pay crazy money an incompetent Mac "Genious" to fix your stupid software, or pay overpriced pieces of outdated hardware. Windows has issues but Microsoft doesn't try to hide them while calling you an idiot, while Apple.....

This will be my last Apple vs PC post, as it is a waste of time.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

That is all well and good.  Now show me how you found that information?  That is what was so frustrating.  I am used to dealing with software I have never used before.  I do not mind digging through documents or reading help pages.

Did you try using the knowledge base at apple.com? There's a huge amount of data available there starting from downloadable PDF user manuals, DIY hardware service instructions and user knowledge base.

I found the eject button image simply by searching "MBP eject button" on Google. I know your frustration, I almost threw my mac out of the window on my first day too, trying to find the eject button from the side of the machine where it sits on windows laptops.

One answer I got was, "If you cannot configure the network, you are a moron and should not be allowed to use a computer.". This was in asking where the network configuration panel was.

Much like your arrogant response actually.  I just chalk that up to the Apple culture.

I didn't call you a moron, I laughed with your frustrations having lived through them myself. It felt hard just because it's different - but once you found the settings tab and browsed through them you figure out it's so much clearer and simplier than windows.

Sorry if you felt offended, all I did was try to help.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Windows can restore an OS image in a few clicks too.

Oh puhleeze if your host OS is porked it's not even close to a few clicks! You'll need to boot to a rescue partition or DVD and revert to an image that will wipe everything you did on the computer so far! Within parallels I can revert to an OS snapshot with 3 mouse clicks and the process takes a few seconds. All my data and applications are safe on the OSX side. Show me _any_ windows image restore that is as fast and easy as that.

If she studies networks she will probably use putty as a shell to program routers and stuff, the shell of the local machine does not impact anything.

Except you have to use a clumsy program to do a simple task that you could do in your own terminal. I was referring to PuTTy when I mentioned 3rd party programs. OSX has native ssh, sftp, scp, vnc etc.

Also if you have issues with a windows machine you don't have to pay crazy money an incompetent Mac "Genious" to fix your stupid software, or pay overpriced pieces of outdated hardware. Windows has issues but Microsoft doesn't try to hide them while calling you an idiot, while Apple.....

This will be my last Apple vs PC post, as it is a waste of time.

Nothing stops you from doing your own repair on a mac any more than any laptop. In fact even on Apple.com there are tutorials on how to service your own products. Certain things can be changed and some not. When our company stoped using windows machines our machine downtime reduced from regular windows / hardware trouble to 1 hardware problem per 1 years average. The Macs more than paid themselves back in saved work hours.

[Skuzzy]

Riply, my quote about being called a moron was from the Apple site where I was trying to get help.  It was not a reference to you.  It was a commentary on the general attitude I run into when asking for help on Apple products.

Did you try using the knowledge base at apple.com? There's a huge amount of data available there starting from downloadable PDF user manuals, DIY hardware service instructions and user knowledge base.

Yes, I did try to find that data (good thing I had another computer avilable to use), but all the information I could find kept referring to a later version of the OS and all stated we needed to update the OS if it did not match the documentation.  Which is another problem.

Oh puhleeze if your host OS is porked it's not even close to a few clicks! You'll need to boot to a rescue partition or DVD and revert to an image that will wipe everything you did on the computer so far! Within parallels I can revert to an OS snapshot with 3 mouse clicks and the process takes a few seconds. All my data and applications are safe on the OSX side. Show me _any_ windows image restore that is as fast and easy as that.

Actually, since Windows XP SP3, or so, you can do an update/install of the OS and it will not lose any application installations or drivers.  The only time it will wipe the installs out is if the registry is corrupted.  If you can edit the registry, then a re-install of the OS does not have to wipe the applications installed.  On a decent computer it takes about 15 to 20 minutes to do.

Want to tell me how to update the Apple OS when I do not have a login or password to the Apple site?  Or how to find out what that login and password it is looking for?  So far, her computer has been down for a week as it barely can boot.  Cannot run any applications at all without locking up.

I am no fan of Microsoft, but they are looking better and better every day that passes by with a dead $2,500.00 computer.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Riply, my quote about being called a moron was from the Apple site where I was trying to get help.  It was not a reference to you.

Yep but you did call me arrogant and placed me to the 'Apple culture'. Mind you I was a Mac hater untill 4 years back. I thought iPhone sucked untill I used it. Same thing was for OSX.

At first I went crazy trying to figure out simple things because I was thinking like a windows user. A windows user does not think that installing a program happens just by pulling the program image to the 'programs' folder. Just the same with the eject button.

You critisized about the mac.com/me.com account need - but after you create the account everything is so simple. If you've ever tried to take a Nokia smartphone into use and compare it to having a mac and an iphone, you know Nokia + windows is stone age. The same with Android. With the iPhone stuff just starts happening automagically when you connect it up the first time. No need to read a manual, no need to do clumsy user registration to odd websites over and over.. you get free cloud space to sync your devices, ability to track your devices etc.

I work with computers all day every day. I like the simplicity because I don't want to think about using the computer at all. I want to concentrate on my work which is either having a presentation in a conference or plugging remotely to a linux server. Mac tools like Keynote and Omnigraffle create extremely high quality presentations and cost next to nothing. If you put MS Visio slides next to Omnigraffle, they look like 70's show compared to Star Trek

[Skuzzy]

I cannot create an account.  The thing keeps popping up and asking for a login ID and password without any other information as to what to do when you do not know what the login or password is.  There is no option to create an account.  Even if there were, if it wants to use a browser, she is hosed.  The browser will not work on her computer.

I am not a Windows person.  I am a UNIX person who happens to know how Windows works.  I do not like the iPhone either, but to be far, I do not care for any 'smart' phone.  They are all a pain in the butt to use.

There is nothing simple about Windows or Apple computers.  They all require too much effort to do the simplest tasks.

Of course, her computer is pretty easy right now.  It barely boots and that is about all you can do with it.

The problem with Microsoft and Apple is they want to hide everything from you thinking that will make it easier to use the products.  For some, it works, for others it is a nightmare. For all it is a nightmare when things go wrong.

I have been administering computers for over 25 years and one thing I learned is the more you try to hide something, the harder it is to maintain it.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Actually, since Windows XP SP3, or so, you can do an update/install of the OS and it will not lose any application installations or drivers.  The only time it will wipe the installs out is if the registry is corrupted.  If you can edit the registry, then a re-install of the OS does not have to wipe the applications installed.  On a decent computer it takes about 15 to 20 minutes to do.

You can install again yes, but it takes a lot of time and at all times you risk porking applications that unfortunately replace system dlls with their own. The install also takes a lot of time. If you even suspect a malware got into the machine you need to nuke it from orbit and do a full reimage. On Parallels that's literally 3 clicks and a few seconds away - with no need to install apps and data back from backup since they never were on windows to start with.

Want to tell me how to update the Apple OS when I do not have a login or password to the Apple site?  Or how to find out what that login and password it is looking for?  So far, her computer has been down for a week as it barely can boot.  Cannot run any applications at all without locking up.

Sounds pretty bad. I'd take it to the mac service if it has warranty left because that sounds like hardware trouble to me. If you suspect the harddrive is bad you can boot your mbp up from a usb harddrive temporarily to see if that stabilizes the box. You can actually boot the mbp so that you can use the dvd to install a fresh OS to the USB hdd and use the mbp through it. Great way to figure out if the internal hdd is bad. Changing the hdd is a 20 minute task, special torx screw driver is needed so be prepared for a visit at the tool store!

If your wife forgot her apple.com login try this site: https://iforgot.apple.com if you can't remember your password or id, as long as you remember your e-mail account you used to create it you're fine.

I am no fan of Microsoft, but they are looking better and better every day that passes by with a dead $2,500.00 computer.
[/quote]

[Skuzzy]

You can install again yes, but it takes a lot of time and at all times you risk porking applications that unfortunately replace system dlls with their own. The install also takes a lot of time. If you even suspect a malware got into the machine you need to nuke it from orbit and do a full reimage. On Parallels that's literally 3 clicks and a few seconds away - with no need to install apps and data back from backup since they never were on windows to start with.

Sounds pretty bad. I'd take it to the mac service if it has warranty left because that sounds like hardware trouble to me. If you suspect the harddrive is bad you can boot your mbp up from a usb harddrive temporarily to see if that stabilizes the box. You can actually boot the mbp so that you can use the dvd to install a fresh OS to the USB hdd and use the mbp through it. Great way to figure out if the internal hdd is bad. Changing the hdd is a 20 minute task, special torx screw driver is needed so be prepared for a visit at the tool store!

If your wife forgot her apple.com login try this site: https://iforgot.apple.com if you can't remember your password or id, as long as you remember your e-mail account you used to create it you're fine.

I am no fan of Microsoft, but they are looking better and better every day that passes by with a dead $2,500.00 computer.

Her hardware is fine.  I know exactly what went wrong.  She did something Apple did not expect someone to do and it borked the machine.  If we can every figure out how to get it to update the OS, she will be back in business.

Yeah, you say it takes 3 clicks and a few seconds?  Uh, huh, then why is it her computer has been dead for almost a week now?  It it was Windows, I would have wiped the drive and re-installed the OS and had her running in an hour, or so.

No one at Apple has been any help, at all.  And see, that is where the biggest issue lies with Apple products.  They are fine, until they are not fine, then you are pretty much screwed unless you pay Apple a ton of money for support.  If that perception is incorrect, then Apple needs to work on it.