F-86 vs MiG-15

[63tb]

Folks,

Any day now my wife and I are going to be blessed with our first Grandson. I decided to build a model airplane for his room, and I picked the F-86 since I think it's the best looking jet ever. Working on it got me thinking about that classic matchup between the F-86 and MiG-15 in Korea.

As far as I can they look evenly matched:

F-86 - Radar gun site, better instantaneous turn, higher mach number, better high speed control
MiG-15 - Better guns, higher ceiling, better overall maneuverability, better power to weight

Both sides claimed higher kill ratios, but I think that now it is considered pretty even.

So are those assumptions correct? Also wasn't the engine used in both planes basically a copy of a British engine? If so how did contemporary British jets compare?

There is also that classic argument of cannon versus .50 cal. I read that many MiGs were landable after hit by F-86 fire, but if an F-86 was hit, it was lost.

So how do you guys rate these planes?

63tb

[Ack-Ack]

It depends on which varient of the Sabre vs. MiG 15.  It wasn't until the introduction of the "all-flying tail" in the F-86E that the Sabre acheived parity with the MiG 15 and surpassed the MiG with the introduction of the "6-3" wing in the F-86F model.


ack-ack

[dirtdart]

It depends on which varient of the Sabre vs. MiG 15.  It wasn't until the introduction of the "all-flying tail" in the F-86E that the Sabre acheived parity with the MiG 15 and surpassed the MiG with the introduction of the "6-3" wing in the F-86F model.


ack-ack

I can't remember if it was in Yaegers book or which one, but the X1 contributed to the all flying tail.  It was then when he talked to former Mig pilots they were terrified to dive their Migs because of compression.  At any rate, it is interesting the seemingly simple yet evolutionary changes that come about when being on the cutting edge of technology and speed.  I am sure someone on the forums can put my comment to the right person, I just can't recall of the top of my head. 

[morfiend]

Folks,

Any day now my wife and I are going to be blessed with our first Grandson. I decided to build a model airplane for his room, and I picked the F-86 since I think it's the best looking jet ever. Working on it got me thinking about that classic matchup between the F-86 and MiG-15 in Korea.

As far as I can they look evenly matched:

F-86 - Radar gun site, better instantaneous turn, higher mach number, better high speed control
MiG-15 - Better guns, higher ceiling, better overall maneuverability, better power to weight

Both sides claimed higher kill ratios, but I think that now it is considered pretty even.

So are those assumptions correct? Also wasn't the engine used in both planes basically a copy of a British engine? If so how did contemporary British jets compare?

There is also that classic argument of cannon versus .50 cal. I read that many MiGs were landable after hit by F-86 fire, but if an F-86 was hit, it was lost.

So how do you guys rate these planes?

63tb

  Some Canadian F86's were equipped with 4 20mm hispano cannon!



   

[Squire]

Flying at high subsonic speeds much of the time I think I would prefer the radar ranging gunsight and hydraulically boosted controls of the F-86. In many ways they are examples of the philosophy of the two rival superpowers; US fighters tend to have a lot of niceties ergonamically speaking where Soviet fighters were built to be decent but not fancy or too expensive. They were both very good designs but were also designed with different strengths and weaknesses much like other classic fighter matchups throughout history from 1915-2012; Sopwith Camel vs Fokker DVII, P-51 vs Bf 109, F-4 vs MiG-21, ect. 

[nrshida]

I can't remember if it was in Yaegers book or which one, but the X1 contributed to the all flying tail...

The Miles M.52 contributed the all flying tail 

[63tb]

I've seen references to the 6-3 wing. This is where they increased its area and removed the slats, right? I also read that the US tried a 4x 20mm loadout in in Korea but there were problems with gases being sucked into the engine causing stalls.

[Ack-Ack]

I've seen references to the 6-3 wing. This is where they increased its area and removed the slats, right?

Yep.

ack-ack

[MiloMorai]

  Some Canadian F86's were equipped with 4 20mm hispano cannon!
  

I don't think so. The last Sabre, the Mk 6, still had 5 .50" hmgs.

[MiloMorai]

  Some Canadian F86's were equipped with 4 20mm hispano cannon!
  

I don't think so. The last Sabre, the Mk 6, still had 6 .50" hmgs.

[Bino]

  Some Canadian F86's were equipped with 4 20mm hispano cannon!

   

So was the US Navy's version of the F-86, the FJ-2 "Fury".   

[Noir]

I climbed into a mig15 and you can‘t see anything out of the back. I heard that the pilot was sitting higher in the F86 so he could have better views, but was less protected in the process.

I've read that the mig15 intended purpose was to shoot down long range american bomber, not to dogfight nearly identical fighters...hence the heavy armament, pilot protection and high alt performance.

[USAF2010]

The F-86H was the American variant with the 4x20mm cannon.

Funny thing about it is that when they introduced it to the theatre, they kept the 5th and 6th gunports to make it decieving so they would appear to look like typical Sabres


-INCOMING

[Ack-Ack]

F-86H never saw combat.

ack-ack

[morfiend]

I don't think so. The last Sabre, the Mk 6, still had 6 .50" hmgs.

 Milo,

  I'm sure I've seen pix of Canadian sabers with the 20mm's,but it could have been british sabers.


  Sure now I'm gonna spend hours finding out who's correct....   I thought I'd read that we modified the saber with an uprated engine and the 20's.  However I'm going from memory and that's not the wisest thing for me to do these days.