Author Topic: F18 crashes into building  (Read 2197 times)

Offline Golfer

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2012, 07:23:23 AM »
F-22 fighter jets retrofitted after Alaska crash
Published March 20, 2012 | Associated Press
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The Air Force is replacing handles that engage the F-22 Raptor fighter jet's emergency oxygen system after pilots reported feeling lightheaded and the death of a captain whose $143 million aircraft took a nosedive into a mountain range in Alaska.
Capt. Jeffrey Haney was killed in November 2010 during a night mission about 100 miles north of Anchorage. An accident investigation found that the plane's controls and switches contributed to the crash, particularly an emergency oxygen system activation ring on the back edge of the ejection seat.
The report found that the two-step process to manually activate the system required the pilot to pull the green ring up and out of the retaining slot and then pull it directly forward. The Air Force says the latter move may have the same force as pulling a 40- or more pound weight.
While the ring is attached to the seat by a lanyard, if it is dropped it can fall between the seats, making it difficult to retrieve, especially if the pilot is flying at night and wearing bulky winter clothing.
The problem with the system was identified by an independent scientific advisory board that studied the jet's safety issues. It was identified as one of the critical items to be fixed, according to public affairs at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, which came up with the new, safer handles.
The modification makes it easier for the pilot to access the handle, the military says. The Air Force has ordered 200 handles at a cost of $47 each. They have already been installed in Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson's 40 F-22s, the Anchorage base that Haney, 31, was attempting to return to when he crashed during a night-time training mission.
The new handles also provide a better grip, especially when the pilot is wearing cold weather gear, according to information provided by Luke Air Force Base.
Haney's widow has filed a wrongful death lawsuit against Lockheed Martin Corp. that claims the plane's onboard oxygen delivery system, among other things, is defective.
The lawsuit also says the mechanism for activating the emergency backup oxygen system is underneath and behind the pilot and impossible to reach while flying at supersonic speeds.
The lawsuit says the Lockheed Martin plane "did not safely or properly provide breathable oxygen to the pilot operating the aircraft."
Investigators found that the on-board oxygen generating system on Haney's plane automatically stopped working after air leaks were detected in the ducts of both engines.
The report says airflow would have stopped to the pilot's mask, causing severe restricted breathing. But, it says, that instead of activating the emergency oxygen system, Haney focused on restoring airflow to the mask and keeping the plane from taking a dive.
The report says that Haney's death was not hypoxia-related because he was conscious while struggling with the plane and never activated the emergency oxygen system.
Haney's death was tragic and the company sympathizes with the family, Lockheed Martin spokeswoman Stephanie Stinn said Tuesday.
"We are aware that a complaint that makes a variety of claims associated with the accident has been filed with the court in Cook County, IL. We do not agree with those allegations and we will respond to them through the appropriate legal process," she said in an email.
The Air Force's entire fleet was placed on temporary stand-down last summer and an investigation ensued after numerous pilots reported lightheadedness and other symptoms consistent with not receiving enough oxygen. The planes were returned to service in mid-September, but there have been more reports of hypoxia-like events.
Three F-22 pilots at Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson experienced "physiological incidents" in February, said base spokeswoman Corinna M. Jones. In each case, the pilot activated the plane's emergency oxygen system, she said.
John Noonan, a spokesman for Rep. Howard P. "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said that the chairman is still looking for a "smoking gun" to explain what could be problems with the Raptor's oxygen delivery system.
"They are modifying some aircraft with environmental monitors and they have other pilots wearing O2 sensors," Noonan said in an email.
He said baseline blood work has been done of every pilot flying the F-22s "so if they do come back after an oxygen incident, they might be able to see what's changed in that particular pilot."
Besides the Anchorage base, the remainder of the nation's 170 F-22 Raptors are stationed at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, Hawaii; Joint Base Langley-Eustis, Va.; Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.; Holloman Air Force Base, N.M.; and Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla.
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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/20/f-22-fighter-jets-retrofitted-after-alaska-crash/print#ixzz1rMAmf8gG

Offline CAP1

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2012, 08:34:23 AM »
Unless the plane was absolutely uncontrollable it is inexcusable. I feel pretty strongly about stuff like this.

 i read that it was on fire.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2012, 08:36:19 AM »
How many hours do you have? Have you ever landed a plane, have you ever declared an emergency?

piss off cheryl

 personally, i've landed at night with full electrical system failure, and once in the daytime had a partial engine failure on takeoff.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2012, 08:39:57 AM »
also.......didn't they build kinda too close to this air station?
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Offline Rash

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2012, 08:40:04 AM »
Personally, I've landed with a beer in my hand like at row 34, near the bathroom.  I clapped and said hell yeah.
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Offline CAP1

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2012, 08:40:54 AM »
Personally, I've landed with a beer in my hand like at row 34, near the bathroom.  I clapped and said hell yeah.


 :rofl :rofl
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2012, 09:33:21 AM »
When the cockpit of the 210 started filling up with smoke my first thought was to make sure if I went down I wouldnt hurt anyone on the ground.

But keep on talking, princess.


That's always good. You have no other option like parachute or ejection seat.... it is the only option.

I'd wait for more info. We know there was something catastropic happened to the plane.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2012, 04:11:47 PM »
Here's the result of waiting too long......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNVOjKSrEQ4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Here's one that worked out better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br1poSaupOs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Unless, you were there, in the cockpit, you don't know the facts and the time pressure they experienced.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 05:24:06 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline curry1

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2012, 04:29:40 PM »
Curry1-Since Tour 101

Offline MachFly

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2012, 06:58:15 PM »
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 07:48:52 PM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s

Offline Golfer

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2012, 07:49:04 PM »
Totally different entities doing their investigations.

Ok.

Pentagon to review report blaming JBER F-22 pilot for crash
Published: February 9th, 2012 09:01 AM
From The Air Force Times:

In an unusual and perhaps unprecedented move, the inspector general for the U.S. Department of Defense will review an Air Force report that blames Capt. Jeffrey Haney for the fatal 2010 crash of his F-22 fighter north of Anchorage -- even though the jet has been beset by problems and complaints from pilots.

The Air Force's investigation blamed Haney for the crash, saying that Haney didn't react quickly enough to activate the jet's emergency oxygen system or recover from a dive he entered into as he struggled to breathe. However, the report also confirms that a malfunction occurred in the Raptor's bleed air intakes, which caused an automatic shutdown of multiple aircraft functions that included the F-22's primary oxygen system.

In the letter to [Air Force Secretary Michael] Donley, an IG official wrote that the agency will "focus on the adherence of the [Aircraft Investigation Board] to the procedures set forth in Air Force Instruction (AFI) 51-503, ‘Aerospace Accident Investigations.' Our assessment will also verify that AIB conclusions are supported by evidence of record consistent with standards of proof established by AFI 51-503," he wrote.

Haney's friends and relatives have criticized the Air Force for its crash report conclusions, reports ABC News.
Read more here: http://www.adn.com/2012/02/09/230825...#storylink=cpy


And:



Haney's inability to pull the handle during his fatal accident was one of the issues cited in an accident investigation report released by the Air Force in December.

In a detailed, minute-by-minute account, investigators found that Haney's oxygen supply was stopped automatically after the onboard computers detected an air leak in the engine bay. The aircraft system shut down the oxygen system to protect itself from further damage, as designed.

To save himself and the plane, Haney, wearing bulky cold-weather gear, should have leaned over and, with a gloved hand, pulled a green ring that was under his seat beside his left leg to engage the emergency system, the report said.

In the end, the Air Force blamed the accident on Haney's "channelized attention" to get oxygen through his mask instead of engaging the emergency system, which led to factors that contributed to the crash, the report said.

In her lawsuit, Haney's widow contends that the plane was "designed, manufactured, distributed and sold with a dangerous and defective backup oxygen system, which could only be activated manually, and whose manual activation mechanism was located underneath and behind the pilot."

The suit said the handle's location was "in an area impossible for a pilot to reach while he or she maneuvered the sophisticated aircraft at speeds exceeding the speed of sound and while he or she experienced forces many times the force of gravity."

Offline Puma44

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #86 on: April 07, 2012, 08:16:30 PM »
http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2011/F-22A_AK_ExecSum_16%20Nov%2010.pdf


Think this source is a more reliable than foxnews.

Foxnews typically concentrates more on hysteria than the facts.  
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:07:06 PM by Puma44 »



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Offline sntslilhlpr6601

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #87 on: April 07, 2012, 09:32:06 PM »
This has got to be one of the most disappointing threads on this forum.

I'm just glad everyone survived. Kinda surprising after seeing that fire.

 :salute to the pilot.

Offline FYB

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #88 on: April 07, 2012, 09:42:01 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

This chart should mean something to you someday.



And BS. Your first thought wasn't of the people on the ground. Your 14th thought wasn't even of the people on the ground.

If, and it's a big freaking if, the failure occurred as you say it did you wound up very lucky in a situation you would have been able to get ahead of with more than a quick "here's the gear handle" checkout.

Still that's one abnormality in your whole 400 hours of experience. In single engine light airplanes. You haven't even begin to scare yourself, ace.
I find this thread hilarious. Old men bashing youngsters; didn't your mother ever teach you? If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it.  ;)

And as for the topic, those pilots should be awarded. Staying in the aircraft past the point that their own lives are at stake to try and reduce damage down below? Someone get two wheelbarrows, those men need something to carry their balls with/in.  :rock
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:52:09 PM by FYB »
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Offline MachFly

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Re: F18 crashes into building
« Reply #89 on: April 07, 2012, 10:43:18 PM »
The suit said the handle's location was "in an area impossible for a pilot to reach while he or she maneuvered the sophisticated aircraft at speeds exceeding the speed of sound and while he or she experienced forces many times the force of gravity."

Except he was not maneuvering (you typically don't pull high Gs while joining a formation) at the time so he should not have had any problems activating the backup oxygen system. Something does not add up here.  

I think news is just saying some BS to make their story more attractive and therefore make more money.


Here is the full USAF report: http://usaf.aib.law.af.mil/ExecSum2011/F-22A_AK_16%20Nov%2010.pdf (It's 40 pages so I did not get a chance to read it yet)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 10:49:16 PM by MachFly »
"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
Lt. Col. William R. Dunn
flew Spitfires, Hurricanes, P-51s, P-47s, and F-4s