A Little more Realism (88s and Storch)

[Pand]

I understand this is a game and there are many aspects that are required to keep the game operating the way it does; however, it seems our most recent additions have added even more 'gameyness' instead of realism.

1.  When the 88's were added to this game, I imagine it was intended for attacking enemy bombers coming in, and I'm all for that.  Unfortunately, the 88s are consistently being used to down fighters going 400+ mph and killing troops in the silk over town.  Not sure how accurate these actions are if we compare them to the historical use of the 88's.

2.  When the storch was added to this game, I imagine it was intended for identifying enemy vehicles on the ground and marking them to assist other aircraft and vehicles.  Unfortunately, it appears that pilots are using the storch as defense at vehicle bases to shoot troops with their rear guns.  What is even more ridiculous, I've seen pilots up a storch and immediately bail out while still in the hangar.  They then run over on the ground and use their .45 to shoot troops entering their maproom.  I don't believe this action is historically accurate, but would love to see a pilot with a single .45 up against 10 trained paratroopers.

While I don't have a potential solution to #1, maybe someone else could share some ideas. 

I do however, propose that for #2 that troops can use their weapons!  If there is an enemy pilot's chute in range, they open fire and alleviate the situation.  If not, maybe remove the pilots ability to shoot/kill anything after he has already lost his aircraft.

Thanks all for listening, and hope to see some changes in future versions by HTC to address these concerns.

Would also like to keep this thread positive and avoid obvious responses.
  - Yes I understand if the 88s are killed they cant do #1.
  - Yes I understand if the storch hangar is killed they can't bail out of a storch and run to the maproom for #2.

[wil3ur]

There's nothing wrong with the 88's.  They're slow to move and if you get hit by one doing 400mph in a fighter, then you're moving in an extremely predictable flight path.  4K out is about 4 seconds lead time.  If you're where I thought you were going to be 4 seconds ago then you're doing it wrong.   

[coombz]

As far #1 goes, I've noticed lots of people who are unable or unwilling to fight land their plane then jump in the 88 to try to shoot me down without any risk to themselves, but to date I've never taken a hit from any of them...the 88s seem suitably inaccurate that you can just ignore them when flying a fighter

As for #2, there were a load of OMG THE GAME IS BROKEN threads after the Storch patch went live because of these issues, and some people were convinced it was a temporary aberration and would be fixed ASAP...as we're at least 3 or 4 patches down the line now and it still hasn't been changed, we can safely assume that this is another aspect of gameplay that HiTech just doesn't care about 

[Pand]

There's nothing wrong with the 88's.  They're slow to move and if you get hit by one doing 400mph in a fighter, then you're moving in an extremely predictable flight path.  4K out is about 4 seconds lead time.  If you're where I thought you were going to be 4 seconds ago then you're doing it wrong.   

Sorry, I forgot to add that to my obvious response list before, thank you for reminding me up front!  I would like to reiterate that I'm looking for a more historical use of equipment and less gameyness.  

[Pand]

As far #1 goes, I've noticed lots of people who are unable or unwilling to fight land their plane then jump in the 88 to try to shoot me down without any risk to themselves, but to date I've never taken a hit from any of them...the 88s seem suitably inaccurate that you can just ignore them when flying a fighter

I suppose I'm just a crappy pilot or the guy manning the 88 is amazing, but I get downed several times per month by 88s 3-4K away from the airfield---while constantly changing my flight path/direction/altitude.

As for #2, there were a load of OMG THE GAME IS BROKEN threads after the Storch patch went live because of these issues, and some people were convinced it was a temporary aberration and would be fixed ASAP...as we're at least 3 or 4 patches down the line now and it still hasn't been changed, we can safely assume that this is another aspect of gameplay that HiTech just doesn't care about  

Agree.

[guncrasher]

other than being anoying.  I have gotten killed by an 88 just a handful of times since they came out.  I dont think many can hit anything with them.



semp

[RTHolmes]

turn on killshooter for 88s

[pervert]

turn on killshooter for 88s

 

[Pand]

turn on killshooter for 88s

I think killshooter for everything would be applicable!  Great idea!

[tunnelrat]

Agreed on killshooter for everything.... 

As far as 88s go, I have killed more fighters than bombers.  I was a mortarman by trade, so I was able to pick up the gist of the fuzing and trajectory pretty fast... 

Is it easy?  No.  But, when you are surrounded by the Annie Oakley AI Base ack, you have several metric tons of ammo, and Speedy Gonzales aiding your reload and proximity setting speed, it's a little ridiculous.

Fighter vs. 88, sure... fighter will most likely win.  If he has ords and/or knows what he is doing, you'll get one shot at a high rate of closure. 

On the other hand, if said fighter is in a dogfight 2-4k away you can sit and lob shells with impunity.  While I got less kills against fighters at this range than against the point blank timed shots on guys racing past the base (VERY easy to kill even high deflection fighters this way) I certainly wildly altered the latitude of their fights by popping near them.  Crippling a fighter is just as bad as destroying him outright as far as this goes.

The other issue is that with bombers you are almost always tracking them in the vertical arc... with the sun in your face half the time... and once they pass over, you have to wait a ridiculous amount of time for the gun to traverse the horizontal.  When you are tracking a fighter who is already engaged, depending upon their distance, you only need to traverse within a 10 to 30 degree window for the duration of the fight and that is no problem at all.

I stopped using 88s, and for the most part I only see them used by either people I have shot down trying to get revenge, or as a last ditch crutch against poor defensive planning (i.e., I spend 30 minutes climbing and vectoring onto target and 88 gunner starts lobbing shells ~4 seconds after manning the gun). 

Luckily, the vast majority are absolutely atrocious at using the gun. the point is that with a little practice a player can turn these guns into unrealistic and wildly non-historical "I can't do it in the air, so let's lame it up!!" guns.

And before you call me a furball whiner or whatever, go take a look at my amazing fighter stats first.

[TheMercinary60]

but would love to see a pilot with a single .45 up against 10 trained paratroopers.

when did we get trained paratroopers? last i knew we camouflaged the goons to look like bars, then kicked the drunks out over the town

[tunnelrat]

when did we get trained paratroopers? last i knew we camouflaged the goons to look like bars, then kicked the drunks out over the town

Objection, your honor... HEARSAY!!!

[B4Buster]

Make it so you cannot bail out of Storches.

[Karnak]

I think killshooter for everything would be applicable!  Great idea!

Agreed on killshooter for everything....

This is not viable as it leads to griefing and unavoidable kill shooter incidents.

Park a GV in a hostile hangar and laugh as aircraft kill themselves on the hangar.

[hitech]

As for #2, there were a load of OMG THE GAME IS BROKEN threads after the Storch patch went live because of these issues, and some people were convinced it was a temporary aberration and would be fixed ASAP...as we're at least 3 or 4 patches down the line now and it still hasn't been changed, we can safely assume that this is another aspect of gameplay that HiTech just doesn't care about 

Not quite correct, when the bailing out of Storch issue was found, we added a fighter hangar so the Storch could be disabled.

HiTech