F-35 to cost $1.45 trillion over next 50 years!

[PR3D4TOR]

it cost way more than that.  a lot of r&d is paid for in advance and not included as part of the price of the airplane.

If you include ground facilities, spare parts for 25 years, and development costs: About $2 billion per unit.

"The procurement cost per aircraft as detailed in General Accounting Office (GAO) reports, which include spare parts and software support, was $929 million per aircraft in 1997 dollars. The total program cost projected through 2004 was US$44.75 billion in 1997 dollars. This includes development, procurement, facilities, construction, and spare parts. The total program cost averaged US$2.13 billion per aircraft."


The F-35's total lifecycle cost over 50 years is estimated at $618 million per plane.

[curry1]

That's not an unusual practice or at least it wasn't while I was in. We even did it on A-10s if there was a bird with major problems that was going to be down for maintenance for a long length of time. It could be designated a the "Can Bird" for cannibalization bird. If another plane needed a part which wasn't in stock you'd order the part for the can bird then remove it and use it on your aircraft. Where was your uncle stationed when he worked on F-111s? I did my F-111 time at RAF Upper Heyford in the UK from 1980-1983.

He was in the US for his entire time I'm not really sure where, but I know he was never out of country.  It should be during during the exact same time however.  He graduated high school in 76' then joined the Air Force a year later an must have been in for 8 years or so.  Dale Anhalt, if you know him.

[mthrockmor]

The F-35's total lifecycle cost over 50 years is estimated at $618 million per plane.

And with the real chance of massive inflation over time, this number will skyrocket. America cannot borrow as much cash from China as we have without inflating our way out of repaying it. Oh vey!!

Boo

[PR3D4TOR]

Inflation devalues the currency, so even if the $ amount increases over time due to inflation, the actual value remains the same.

[mthrockmor]

Keynesian theory is that wages keep pace with inflation. There is a pnemubra of inflationary debt that allows politicians to feel good with the idea that 'debt doesn't matter.' This is any debt within the inflationary target rate of 2%. Debt is so out of control right now the Fed is floating the possibility of moving the target to 4%. Seems small but it hides the real devil inside: Not even the mighty dollar can continue to buy planes at over $600mil a pop in today's dollars.

Boo

[PR3D4TOR]

$600 million a pop... over 50 years.

[33Vortex]

First published in 1955, burned in 1961, now available for free on the interwebs. 

The theory that wages keep pace with inflation is highly questionable, especially when it is not in the interest of the major players (owners) of the system. It is under the pretext that the system is clean and not manipulated by any part, reality does not work that way. Ever played monopoly?

[guncrasher]

First published in 1955, burned in 1961, now available for free on the interwebs. 

The theory that wages keep pace with inflation is highly questionable, especially when it is not in the interest of the major players (owners) of the system. It is under the pretext that the system is clean and not manipulated by any part, reality does not work that way. Ever played monopoly?

back in the 80's both parents could work for minimun wage and pay rent on an apartment and have enough money to pay bills and buy food.  we were renting at the time a 3 bedroom apartment with 2 bath for 400 bucks.  we would spend around 200-300 food for a family of 7 a month clipping coupons and hitting sales like crazy.  we werent rich but we got by .  we only had 1 car and the gas was around 90 cents a gallon.  drive in theater was 4 bucks per carload.  my first heavy jacket cost me 8 bucks at zody's.

try feeding a family of seven on 8 bucks an hour with both parents working now a days.  hell we live in a two bedroom apartment and pay 950 bucks a month.  I remember in the early 2000's making 50,000 a year and due to child support I couldnt afford to rent a place to live and pay for gas at the same time.  my daily gas bill was about 80 to 90 bucks as I drove 200 to 300 miles a day.  I lived in my truck for six months.  I used to laugh as I always thought i was the only homeless guy that was required to have a cell phone.  I still make about the same amount of money but I am always one paycheck away from being homeless at any time.  I have managed to save some money for retirement but taking it out would basically cost me a lot more.

middle class is a rare thing of the past and even those who consider themselves middle class are one or two paychecks away from food stams..  now a days either you are rich or you are poor.  those in the "middle class" are just not drowning as fast.


semp

[Shifty]

He was in the US for his entire time I'm not really sure where, but I know he was never out of country.  It should be during during the exact same time however.  He graduated high school in 76' then joined the Air Force a year later an must have been in for 8 years or so.  Dale Anhalt, if you know him.

I joined in 78 and stayed until 94. I never met Dale, then again it's a big Air Force. 

[RTHolmes]

werent there discussions exactly like this while the F-111's budget escalated and the delivery dates receeded into the distance about 50yrs ago?

[mthrockmor]

werent there discussions exactly like this while the F-111's budget escalated and the delivery dates receeded into the distance about 50yrs ago?

Can your source that? I'm not being cheeky, just interested in the discussion. I do know that an F6FHellcat cost $150,000 in those days, which would run around $3 million today? I know, apples to apples though within the context of the technological impact within an ecomony, the replacement F\A-18E\F runs $65 million. Over the lifetime, more but no where near $600 million plus.

Keynesian economics shows up everywhere. It is literally "play now, pay later." At some point we've got to stop. My daughter is 6-years old and the impact of buying power in the years to come...one way of looking at this, and I won't get into the weeds but our current stock market is in the 12,000 range with a serious dip back in 2008. How much of this growth is real economic growth versus being propped up via inflationary forces? Well, how many jobs have been created versus how many millions have either dropped out of the work force and\or opted into near permanent welfare. A "jobless recovery" is hardly possible.

In any case, just my two cents but I'd rather us rebuild Hornets and Falcons then go this route. But that's just me...

Boo

[RTHolmes]

I thought there were ongoing problems with the development and then delivery drift, recalls etc. due to the cutting edge tech.

in those days the worry was more about performance for the cost, rather than cost for the performance, but they are different sides of the same engineering coin. in the end it did its job and although not cheap, not a complete waste of money for its capability over a long period of time.

[33Vortex]

All in all, this is where Keynesian economics will get you. www.usdebtclock.org

Politicians speak of fiscal responsibility, so does the banks, and they try to hold a moral high ground when speaking of it. Yet they show no signs of actually having any sense of what fiscal responsibility actually is in their actions since they consequently and pretty much without exception steer their country (take your pick) towards bankruptcy.

Iceland it seems, is the only country actually having some sense of democracy and common sense left in their politics. See this article.

[PR3D4TOR]

The Icelandic government doesn't have an army it can turn on its own citizens to protect themselves.

[mthrockmor]

The Icelandic government doesn't have an army it can turn on its own citizens to protect themselves.

Very real point you raise. It's been noted that much of Europe benefits from the safety net provided by the US. Lots to debate in this though evidence of some payback is the reality that European countries are buying the F-35 to fight??? In any case, I think we are coming full circle here.

Boo