Constructive suggestion for perking the Storch

[TDeacon]

dood you can get 4 perks just by resuplying a base with an m3.  upping  a tiger an getting 20 kills got me less perks than that.

semp

No argument there.  However, you are missing the point of this discussion, which is whether lightly perking the Storch will improve or harm gameplay.  The discussion has nothing to do with the fact that earning perks is (by HTC design) easy.  It has to do with the *psychological* consequences to players of perking a ride, and the resulting changed useage patterns.  

MH

[guncrasher]

No argument there.  However, you are missing the point of this discussion, which is whether lightly perking the Storch will improve or harm gameplay.  The discussion has nothing to do with the fact that earning perks is (by HTC design) easy.  It has to do with the *psychological* consequences to players of perking a ride, and the resulting changed useage patterns.  

MH

you still havent made a point over why the storch should be perked.  it has no guns, it has no bombs.  all it can do is drop smoke and it can easily be killed by either tank mg fire or fighters.

which usage patterns you want to change.  all it's supposed to do is spot gvs, that's the only reason for it being here and that is the reason the gv icon range was reduced.  to force people to use the storch to find gvs.

semp

[TDeacon]

you still havent made a point over why the storch should be perked.  it has no guns, it has no bombs.  all it can do is drop smoke and it can easily be killed by either tank mg fire or fighters.

which usage patterns you want to change.  all it's supposed to do is spot gvs, that's the only reason for it being here and that is the reason the gv icon range was reduced.  to force people to use the storch to find gvs.

semp

I alluded to the reason in one of my earlier posts.  The reason is to take advantage of the typical player's psychological response to a 1-point perk cost, resulting in slightly less use of the Storch.  In turn, this would slightly increase the ability of opposing GVs to remain hidden (critically important, and this has nothing to do with Storch guns or bombs).  In particular, it would deter the type of usage *I myself* am guilty of, where I use them as "ammunition" without fear of loss.  I do this because they cost nothing; I care nothing for bomber or any other score, and the transit time to where they are used is negligible.  

I don’t want to eliminate them completely, just to make them be slightly less likely to be used in certain situations.  Based on my observations of when I myself, and others tend to use them, I think that a slight perk cost might nudge the game in a better direction.  This is a tweak to game play, not a major change.  Honestly, I am not clear as to why some of you guys oppose it; you will still be able to bomb and strafe GVs to your hearts' content.  

MH

[guncrasher]

I alluded to the reason in one of my earlier posts.  The reason is to take advantage of the typical player's psychological response to a 1-point perk cost, resulting in slightly less use of the Storch.  In turn, this would slightly increase the ability of opposing GVs to remain hidden (critically important, and this has nothing to do with Storch guns or bombs).  In particular, it would deter the type of usage *I myself* am guilty of, where I use them as "ammunition" without fear of loss.  I do this because they cost nothing; I care nothing for bomber or any other score, and the transit time to where they are used is negligible.  

I don’t want to eliminate them completely, just to make them be slightly less likely to be used in certain situations.  Based on my observations of when I myself, and others tend to use them, I think that a slight perk cost might nudge the game in a better direction.  This is a tweak to game play, not a major change.  Honestly, I am not clear as to why some of you guys oppose it; you will still be able to bomb and strafe GVs to your hearts' content.  

MH

ok one more time.  the reason the gv icon range was reduced was to allow for observation airplanes like the storch to be used.  that is the only reason why the storch can see further than any other airplane.

semp

[TDeacon]

ok one more time.  the reason the gv icon range was reduced was to allow for observation airplanes like the storch to be used.  that is the only reason why the storch can see further than any other airplane.

semp

What is the point of this comment???  This thread has nothing to do with *why* the storch was inttroduced; which is common knowledge.  Instead, this thread concerns whether slightly less prolifigate use would be beneficial to the game overall.   

MH

[Melvin]

You could use this "reasoning" on any proposed perk situation.  For example, let's remove perks from the 262.  People "will find a way to adapt".  All they have to do is arrange a mission consisting of 300 P51s and converge on the 262 from all directions.  Brilliant...

MH

You were holding your own quite nicely until this point.

How on Earth are you going to compare a perked Stork to a perked 262? It's un-possible.

Start over.

[shdo]

-1

a) the Storch is easy to shoot down.  Any GV and Any AC can kill the Storch.  The Storch can kill nobody but another Storch who follows to closely.

b) the Storch is only available on the defensive due to spawn location, flight times and vulnerability.  I have flown it to enemy fields on some of the smaller maps.  Spent 30 minutes flying and 10 seconds on station before being killed by an plane without helping my side at all.

c) a GV can hide from a Storch in trees and buildings.  You won't see it without overflying it and the Storch will be dead soon enough.

d) any gv group that brings even an M16 will find itself protected from a Storch.

e) a Storch does not have the ability to earn a perk.  Every other aircraft or gv that cost a perk can also earn the perks it cost.

shdo

[TDeacon]

a) the Storch is easy to shoot down.  Any GV and Any AC can kill the Storch.  The Storch can kill nobody but another Storch who follows to closely.

As I stated previously (hey; why bother reading the entire thread?) a skilled Storch operator can mark GVs without much risk of being shot down, by such tactics as approaching NOE behind trees, or by marking the location the GV is heading for.  As stated previously, the effect of the Storch is to reveal GV locations, so its lack of combat power is irrelevant. 

b) the Storch is only available on the defensive due to spawn location, flight times and vulnerability.  I have flown it to enemy fields on some of the smaller maps.  Spent 30 minutes flying and 10 seconds on station before being killed by an plane without helping my side at all.

Most GV battles have one side “on the defensive”. 

c) a GV can hide from a Storch in trees and buildings.  You won't see it without overflying it and the Storch will be dead soon enough.

Incorrect; it can see you from at least 600 yards away, and more if LOS or movement is involved.  Also, most people don’t up GVs just so they can hide in tress or buildings.  Kind of like watching grass grow…

d) any gv group that brings even an M16 will find itself protected from a Storch.

Incorrect; see my comment to (a) above. 

e) a Storch does not have the ability to earn a perk.  Every other aircraft or gv that cost a perk can also earn the perks it cost.

We are concerned with optimal gameplay issues here, not simplistic rules-of-thumb such as whether a vehicle sortie can recover the perk points it cost.  Actually, one rarely recovers perk points during a sortie with a perked item; typically one hopes for a few kills and survival at the end. 

In summary, remember that the point of the OP was to suggest a disincentive to prolifigate Storch use, leaving the bulk of the existing dynamics in place. 

MH

[Jayhawk]

As I stated previously (hey; why bother reading the entire thread?) a skilled Storch operator can mark GVs without much risk of being shot down, by such tactics as approaching NOE behind trees, or by marking the location the GV is heading for.

How can the storch be 'too easy' but still require a skilled operator to not get shot down?

[TDeacon]

How can the storch be 'too easy' but still require a skilled operator to not get shot down?

The skills referred to are not exactly rocket science (NOE and advance marking).

MH

[guncrasher]

The skills referred to are not exactly rocket science (NOE and advance marking).

MH

what is advanced marking?

semp

[Jayhawk]

what is advanced marking?

semp

In fairness, he said advance marking.  I assume either meaning marking the path of the tanks advance -or-  marking in front of the tanks direction.

[guncrasher]

and of course if the tank sees the smoke it will go for it.


semp

[TDeacon]

and of course if the tank sees the smoke it will go for it.

semp

More often than not, he has to.  For example, if he is heading for a particular hill overlooking a base. 

Come on now; stop grasping at straws.  If you have done any GVing at all, you know what I'm talking about here.  If not, I have to assume you just trying to protect your particular style of attack plane game play. 

MH

[TDeacon]

and of course if the tank sees the smoke it will go for it.

semp

More often than not, he has to.  For example, if he is heading for a particular hill overlooking a base. 

Come on now; stop grasping at straws.  If you have done any GVing at all, you know what I'm talking about here.  If not, I have to assume that your motivation for posting is that you're just trying to protect your particular style of attack plane game play. 

MH