Lucky day...

[MachFly]

I didn't really know to expect. The plane handled ALOT better then I would have thought. I only flown a 172 and that feels really sluggish at the controls compared to this.

Roger

[SunBat]

R u related to the Duck Dynasty ppl cuz I'm pretty sure I've seen that helicopter and rich-ppl-hutch?

[SunBat]

Joc, btw, u ever read the story of Hezekiah in the Bible?  Don't expose your wealth. Bad idea.  Them Babylonians came and got all that stuff a few years later.  Remember that.

In the flavor of Duck Dynasty, I hope I'm making u more nervous than a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Do your parents know u are posting this stuff on the Internet?

[Butcher]

Joc, btw, u ever read the story of Hezekiah in the Bible?  Don't expose your wealth. Bad idea.  Them Babylonians came and got all that stuff a few years later.  Remember that.

In the flavor of Duck Dynasty, I hope I'm making u more nervous than a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Do your parents know u are posting this stuff on the Internet?

I agree, not a good idea, mainly because the internet is open to the public and people can be stupid.

[JOACH1M]

Joc, btw, u ever read the story of Hezekiah in the Bible?  Don't expose your wealth. Bad idea.  Them Babylonians came and got all that stuff a few years later.  Remember that.

In the flavor of Duck Dynasty, I hope I'm making u more nervous than a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs.

Do your parents know u are posting this stuff on the Internet?

Yes they know...in fact they read this forum. 

[Golfer]

Setting aside the fact you're not holding a multiengine rating and you don't have a 61.55 SIC checkout in the airplane which doesn't make you legal to fly the airplane with passengers on board...

Let's assume that's a charter airplane, as it's associated with a management company it probably is though that's not a requirement. It's been through conformity, the pilots are trained to the certificate holders specs, the airplane is maintained to the certificate holders standard and operation is subject to the guidance of their GOM (operations manual) Inside that manual will be a line about how only employees of XYZ corp shall occupy pilot seats and only appropriately rated pilots shall manipulate the controls.  Not FAs, Cabin Servers, Passengers, etc.

What you've actually done for this pilot who by all measures was being exceedingly cool toward you post photographic evidence sufficient to grant him a suspension (minimum, revocation would be on the table especially if it's a live 135 charter leg) of his certificate in the eyes of the FAA and termination from his employer.

But hey, you had a cool experience...

[JOACH1M]

Making a mountain out of a molehill... The plane is owned by a friend of family and piloted by a friend of family aswell. I maybe had controls for 5 minutes max... No need to freak out over nothing.

[Golfer]

Making a mountain out of a molehill... The plane is owned by a friend of family and piloted by a friend of family aswell. I maybe had controls for 5 minutes max... No need to freak out over nothing.

Not freaking out.  It's not my career on the internet.

FWIW no time limits nor familial associates are written into the regulations to allow for what's photographed and posted.  They're pretty cut and dry and like most of them are written in blood.  I deal with the black and white aspect and what very real consequences could await the (unsuspecting?) PIC of this flight should these pictures come to the wrong inspectors desk.  A suspension would be having a lucky day in comparison to what alternative consequences have occurred in the past.

Aeroflot 593 comes to mind.  The pilots kids killed an airplane load of people. They were having a "lucky day" too.

Disclaimer:
I'm not throwing stones.  I'm not saying I have or haven't done anything questionable, have or haven't toed the line or have or haven't stepped over it at some point.  Regardless of whether I did or didn't do anything questionable, no photographic evidence of what did or didn't happen would ever exist.

Cameras are very real threats to good old fashioned fun.  Use them with caution.

[Golfer]

I'm not trying to wet blanket your big day. That's cool and I'm sure you won't forget it no matter where you go in life.

I just wanted to point out your actions may have unintended consequences for someone else.

[1sum41]

Not freaking out.  It's not my career on the internet.

FWIW no time limits nor familial associates are written into the regulations to allow for what's photographed and posted.  They're pretty cut and dry and like most of them are written in blood.  I deal with the black and white aspect and what very real consequences could await the (unsuspecting?) PIC of this flight should these pictures come to the wrong inspectors desk.  A suspension would be having a lucky day in comparison to what alternative consequences have occurred in the past.

Aeroflot 593 comes to mind.  The pilots kids killed an airplane load of people. They were having a "lucky day" too.

Disclaimer:
I'm not throwing stones.  I'm not saying I have or haven't done anything questionable, have or haven't toed the line or have or haven't stepped over it at some point.  Regardless of whether I did or didn't do anything questionable, no photographic evidence of what did or didn't happen would ever exist.

Cameras are very real threats to good old fashioned fun.  Use them with caution.

If the PIC was a MEI and type rated in said aircraft with enough hours to give instruction. i see no problem in what he did. 

[B4Buster]

If the PIC was a MEI and type rated in said aircraft with enough hours to give instruction. i see no problem in what he did.  

Regardless of type ratings, being an MEI, etc, the aircraft was carrying passengers. I don't know much about regs when it comes to commercial matters like this, but depending on how the charter company operates, the pilots may be required to hold an ATP license while flying passengers.


My knowledge is limited, and I'm sure Golfer knows all of the details and quirks. With that said, I am happy for J0 that he got to fly right seat for a few minutes, and think the pics are cool. I'd sure like to get my hands on that control yoke  

[B4Buster]

I believe with an ATP license, the captain could have allowed J0 (if he was at least private pilot rated) to fly and log time in the Hawker is there were no passengers.

[1sum41]

Jo said that it was a friends plane flown by a friend. that is just like me taking any of y'all up, and letting you take the controls for a few. Golfer if i am completely wrong here tell me.

[Golfer]

Jo said that it was a friends plane flown by a friend. that is just like me taking any of y'all up, and letting you take the controls for a few. Golfer if i am completely wrong here tell me.

You're completely wrong.  

The Hawker is type certificated for and requires a two pilot crew. That's two pilots appropriately rated in category, class and type. Airplane, Multiengine Land, HS-125 respectively. That the PIC will be type rated is a given and at a minimum the SIC in order to carry passengers must comply with FAR 61.55 which prescribes the minimum legal requirements for that position.  I just conducted this training for a fill-in pilot we'll be using (Aces High player, actually) so its somewhat fresh in my mind. These requirements include systems, limitations, normal procedures, emergency procedures, 3 takeoffs and landings as the sole manipulator of the controls and single engine maneuvering.

A type rated pilot need not be a MEI to conduct this training but it must be completed prior to carrying passengers. The prerequisite is a Multiengine and Instrument rating (the instrument rating because you'll usually be flying above 18,000') and typically commercial privileges as the lines of "for hire" get blurred regarding what constitutes compensation. Flight time has been proven to be considered compensation in rulings past so let's add that to the list since Joachim isn't paying the bills himself.

Then there are insurance considerations.  As pilot requirements go we have an open pilot policy in that I can use any pilot I deem appropriate regardless of total flight time provided they have the appropriate training, ratings and either myself of my other full time coworker are the PIC. Our insurance policy would very much not cover us if I didn't meet those very basic (and minimum legal) requirements.

It comes down to it might be cool, memorable and fun but it's the pictures that will bite you in the rear. The last thing I'll ever want to see if I tell someone to "prove it" if accused of something would be a picture of me doing it.

That happened once. And it scared the crap out of me after the fact seeing my wingtip a few inches off the ground. I was an indestructible teenager to whom flying came naturally, I was good at it and had no known feelings of fear due to a gross lack of experience.  Remind you of anyone I smack with a rolled up newspaper from time to time?

[1sum41]

You're completely wrong.  

The Hawker is type certificated for and requires a two pilot crew. That's two pilots appropriately rated in category, class and type. Airplane, Multiengine Land, HS-125 respectively. That the PIC will be type rated is a given and at a minimum the SIC in order to carry passengers must comply with FAR 61.55 which prescribes the minimum legal requirements for that position.  I just conducted this training for a fill-in pilot we'll be using (Aces High player, actually) so its somewhat fresh in my mind. These requirements include systems, limitations, normal procedures, emergency procedures, 3 takeoffs and landings as the sole manipulator of the controls and single engine maneuvering.

A type rated pilot need not be a MEI to conduct this training but it must be completed prior to carrying passengers. The prerequisite is a Multiengine and Instrument rating (the instrument rating because you'll usually be flying above 18,000') and typically commercial privileges as the lines of "for hire" get blurred regarding what constitutes compensation. Flight time has been proven to be considered compensation in rulings past so let's add that to the list since Joachim isn't paying the bills himself.

Then there are insurance considerations.  As pilot requirements go we have an open pilot policy in that I can use any pilot I deem appropriate regardless of total flight time provided they have the appropriate training, ratings and either myself of my other full time coworker are the PIC. Our insurance policy would very much not cover us if I didn't meet those very basic (and minimum legal) requirements.

It comes down to it might be cool, memorable and fun but it's the pictures that will bite you in the rear. The last thing I'll ever want to see if I tell someone to "prove it" if accused of something would be a picture of me doing it.

That happened once. And it scared the crap out of me after the fact seeing my wingtip a few inches off the ground. I was an indestructible teenager to whom flying came naturally, I was good at it and had no known feelings of fear due to a gross lack of experience.  Remind you of anyone I smack with a rolled up newspaper from time to time?

yes it does  and i learned something and stand corrected.  time to go dust off the FAR AIM book again!