Somebody get Kranak a tissue......

[Tank-Ace]

....... and make a thread asking for flacker icons to be increased. Wait, heres one!

Can we please get the icons for flacks increased slightly?

1200yds (MAXIMUM view distance) for the wirblewind
1000yds (again, MAXIMUM view distance) for the Osti
800yds (I repeate MAXIMUM view distance) for the M16


I also propose that we either decrease the view distance for friendly ground units to 2000yds, unless a storch is present, or make these hard set limits for both friendly and enemy units, and have it not be increased by the presence of a Storch.


Personally, I say no greater than that. If theres 1 tank, 1 flacker, and 1 plane up, then the plane should have the same odds of survival as the tank does. GV's weren't put here to be targets for those lacking the skills to make an A2A kill. Nobody's gameplay depends on being able to easily bomb tanks. As such, it should be impossible to easily bomb tanks; it should be a hard thing to do.

[TDeacon]

Is this really necessary?  Your proposal introduces a bunch of additional inconsistencies into the game.  Some questions which come to mind include:

1)  Why would an AA vehicle be inherently more visible than a non-AA vehicle?  
2)  Why is the friendly vehicle icon range dependent on the presence of a Storch?  

MH

[TheMercinary60]

shouldn't the osti have the higher view distance since it should be able to have a better chance of accurate fire with the 37 as opposed to the 20mm? o the wirb?

[Karnak]

This is absurd.

Simply make friendly GV icons follow the same rules for aircraft as enemy GV icons do.  Presto.  No more running to Wirbels.

[TDeacon]

(post deleted)

[Tank-Ace]

TDeacon, it wouldn't be, but it would be for gamplay purposes.

Mercinary, this is because the Wirblewind is easier to land hits with than the Ostie is. Yeah, the 37mm has a longer effective range, but the higher ROF and volume of fire you get with the Wirblewind makes it a more effective AA weapon.


Karnak, because friendly aircraft will have a better idea of where friendly forces are than an enemy aircraft. And beyond that, they have the ability to be in radio contact with friendly forces. Even if they only get a message saying 'we have a FlaK unit about 2 miles NNW of you', its going to be more than the enemy knows.

[Karnak]

Karnak, because friendly aircraft will have a better idea of where friendly forces are than an enemy aircraft. And beyond that, they have the ability to be in radio contact with friendly forces. Even if they only get a message saying 'we have a FlaK unit about 2 miles NNW of you', its going to be more than the enemy knows.

The same is true in AH.  Icons are not needed to simulate any of that.  You can just ask on VOX.

[Ack-Ack]

As such, it should be impossible to easily bomb tanks; it should be a hard thing to do.

You think it should be hard because Karnak is correct.  You want it so GVs are virtually immune to being attacked by aircraft while being freely to engage aircraft at will without any risk to yourself.  Someone should get you the tissue, not the other way around.

Also, it wasn't hard to bomb tanks in real life, that's why there are AA GVs to help protect the tanks from air attacks.  You're basically the kind of player that because of various reasons keeps dying to something (airplanes) and instead of adapting, cries to have the game changed so they don't die as much.

So here are some tissues to wipe those tears and snot from your face.




ack-ack

[Chalenge]

You are purposely leaving out half of the story though. GVs were not hard to bomb once they were spotted. Generally speaking it was infantry or other spotters that located the vehicles and then called in their positions. Spotting GVs on roads was an exception to the rule and since in AH they dont generally do that or convoy they should be hard to spot. Especially hard to spot are GVs that are not moving.

So to be totally consistent remove the icons for GVs altogether OR add icons on aircraft that are NOE. There is no reason an NOE aircraft should be able to be totally invisible while the GVs icon is broadcasting his position as you recommend.

Things are really just fine as they are. If I was to change anything it would be the auto-ranging 88s but they dont usually hit much anyway.

[Tank-Ace]

So because I think that I should have a decent chance of survival, I suddently want to be able to sweep aircraft from the sky with a jeep or something?

AKAK, you don't GV, and I understand how that can make it difficult to really KNOW what the GV'ers are saying to you. But you should be albe to understand the difference between being able to affect your own chances of survival, and being almost entirely reliant on someone else to save you.


When I'm rolling along in my Panther, what can I do to affect my chances of survival?

I can possition myself so that I'm not the first target spotted. I can maybe hug a flack, but its about even money that I just end up getting the flacker caught in the blast as well. And past that, I can open up on the aircraft with my pintle machine gun; it'll make me feel better for a few seconds, but the aircraft ain't what you'd call worried about it.


When you get right down to it, even the C-47 can do more to affect its own personall chances of survival against a fighter than a tank can against a heavy fighter. Thats not to say the C-47 is less vulnerable, but only that he can do more to affect his chances.

The C-47 can at least manuver against fighters; I've had 5 minute dogfights in C-47's before.

But the GV? All the tank can do is hope that he doesn't get picked out as a target, and really just fire the pintle gun to show hes not just going to give it up. Aside from that, a tanker really doesn't have much say in whether he lives or dies to a bomb.


So, since the tanker is FORCED to rely on others for survival, isn't it only fair that those people are actually capable of protecting the tanks? Or do you honestly think that, this being a game, that its pefectly fine for GV'ers to be nothing more than targets? Because thats what its come down to; you seem to think that unless aircraft can absolutely devestate a GV attack with little to no effort, that somehow the GV'ers are asking for imunity to bombs.

[Karnak]

You should understand that there is risk.  You act like the guys who up airplanes can just return to base at will.  You act like a perk fighter such as an Me262 or Tempest is immune to being shot down.

Every time somebody ups they risk losing, even if it is perked.

Here is what I would do:

1) Change friendly GV icons to match enemy GV icons as seen from aircraft.  This will help GVs a little bit even as an attacking aircraft wouldn't know if the tank they are lining up on is friendly or hostile until they are inside weapon's release range.
2) Set it so that GVs can only "land successfully" inside a vehicle hangar or if they are more than, say, 3,000 yards from an enemy GV or more than 1,000 yards from an aircraft.
3) Observe the resulting K/D ratios, usage levels and loss rates and adjust the perk costs of perk tanks as needed.

[TheMercinary60]

depending on your tank there is alot you can do. i dont know how many planes ive killed with my t-34

[AKP]

I dont see anything wrong with the way it is now.  GV's can see aircraft icons out to 6K.  Non Spotter Aircraft are severely limited in seeing the icons of what is on the ground.  GV's can take cover and eliminate their icon totally from the air.  Flackers and M16's have the upper hand on knocking down aircraft before the aircraft can get a "good" visual on them.  

But... it is quite realistic that if one side has air support and superiority, and the other does not... the side that does not is going to get bombed... over... and over... and over again.  

This is the normal progression of most tank fights in AH:

1) Tanks start fighting
2) Side A gets an advantage of position or numbers over side B
3) Side B brings in aircraft because of this
4) Side A ups Flackers because of this
5) Not enough flackers up, or they do not stay with the advancing tanks, so tanks still get bombed
5) Side A brings in aircraft because of this
6) Side B ups Flackers because of this
7) Not enough flackers up, or they do not stay with the advancing tanks, so tanks still get bombed

And so the cycle begins...

[Karnak]

I dont see anything wrong with the way it is now.  GV's can see aircraft icons out to 6K.  Non Spotter Aircraft are severely limited in seeing the icons of what is on the ground.  GV's can take cover and eliminate their icon totally from the air.  

The problem I have with the current icon settings is that cowardly aircraft can see their friendly Wirbels 6,000 yards out and run to them while the aircraft they are running from can't see the Wirbel until 600 yards.  Combined arms communications in WWII was not remotely that effective.

The solution, to me, is clear, just limit friendly GV icons in the same way that hostile GV icons are limited to aircraft.

[AKP]

The problem I have with the current icon settings is that cowardly aircraft can see their friendly Wirbels 6,000 yards out and run to them while the aircraft they are running from can't see the Wirbel until 600 yards.  Combined arms communications in WWII was not remotely that effective.

The solution, to me, is clear, just limit friendly GV icons in the same way that hostile GV icons are limited to aircraft.

I wouldnt have issue with that either... seems only fair.