missing a vertical stabilizer

[earl1937]

Being accurate is important.

This B-52 landed without the vertical stab or rudder.  There was at least one B-17 that made it home to England without a vertical stab or rudder.  While it will fly like crap and you will have to be very careful in your control inputs it is possible to fly without a vertical stab on some aircraft.

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I read the incident report on this B-52 accident and it is still available I think, somewhere on line. #1 The aircraft commander had enough wits about him to pull the circuit breaker on the forward landing gear truck and lowered the aft gear truck. That, along with the fact the B-52 used spoilers for aileron control, enable them to maintain longitude control as long as they were about 210 knots IAS, if I remember correctly. I would venture a guess they used no flap V speeds in order to control the aircraft until touch down.

[earl1937]

I'm sure Earl knows a lot that I don't know but old people don't know everything, only young people who lack experience know everything. 

One of the bigger difficulties with losing the tail in an airliner is that the pilot had no way of knowing the tail is gone in the accidents Earl mentioned. There is the obvious control issue but you can get in an unrecoverable attitude before you figure out what the actual problem is.

If you will read the accident report, FAA reports, which is still on line to read, they determined the first officer, who was flying at the time of the incident, the aircraft flew through the wingtip vortices(spelling wrong I think) of an aircraft in front of them and the first officer used to much rudder input in order to maintain directional control. With the side to side yawing because of turbulence and the strong inputs by the first officer was credited with causing this accident.

[FLS]

If you will read the accident report, FAA reports, which is still on line to read, they determined the first officer, who was flying at the time of the incident, the aircraft flew through the wingtip vortices(spelling wrong I think) of an aircraft in front of them and the first officer used to much rudder input in order to maintain directional control. With the side to side yawing because of turbulence and the strong inputs by the first officer was credited with causing this accident.

I assume this is AA Flight 587. Once the tail broke off there is no indication that I recall that the pilots realized this had happened but the plane crashed after the engines fell off.

Regarding Japan Airlines Flight 123 it lost hydraulics and had no aileron and elevator control. The pilots had yaw control from differential thrust until after they lowered gear and flaps.

Neither incident shows that aircraft can't fly without a tail.

[earl1937]

I assume this is AA Flight 587. Once the tail broke off there is no indication that I recall that the pilots realized this had happened but the plane crashed after the engines fell off.

Regarding Japan Airlines Flight 123 it lost hydraulics and had no aileron and elevator control. The pilots had yaw control from differential thrust until after they lowered gear and flaps.

Neither incident shows that aircraft can't fly without a tail.

Tell you what! Go take the vertical stab off of any aircraft you want to and see long it flies!! Even money says it won't even get off the ground!! Once you apply power, all you are going to do is great big ground loops, until you get dizzy headed or run into something. Not trying to argue with you, but take a Twin Beech model 18 or a lockheed Lodestar and try landing without using any rudder, just aerlions, in a 20 knot, 45 degree cross wind and see how that works out!

[FLS]

Tell you what! Go take the vertical stab off of any aircraft you want to and see long it flies!! Even money says it won't even get off the ground!! Once you apply power, all you are going to do is great big ground loops, until you get dizzy headed or run into something. Not trying to argue with you, but take a Twin Beech model 18 or a lockheed Lodestar and try landing without using any rudder, just aerlions, in a 20 knot, 45 degree cross wind and see how that works out!

If you aren't trying to argue with me you're doing it wrong.