Japan to be without nuclear power after May 5

[PR3D4TOR]

The hostility towards anything but solar and wind is thick. Who is getting the last laugh on this one?

Boo

China.

[nrshida]

See Rule #14

 

[Babalonian]

I already see a lot of #14s on this subject so I must tread carefuly while accuratley expressing my strongest opinion on this....  Iran or any emerging nation couldn't find a better blue-light special on surpluss trained/skilled nuclear talent even at WalMart.

[DREDIOCK]

Has to be a joke right? the technology isn't there and green energy in no way can replace conventional and nuclear yet.

I wouldnt say its that far off though either.
One of my customers who's house is easily 3 times the size of mine had solar installed.

His electric bill in march was $2

[DREDIOCK]

There is a lot of orchestrated opposition to fracking too. They found gas here recently and the anti fracking crowd were in action immediately. This is in spite of the fact that they found enough gas to supply the entire country for twelve years.

One of the objections they have to fracking is that it undermines the whole Green fantasy future of so called renewable energy. It also stymies their plans to cover the country in inefficient windmills.

The truth is, whatever way it goes. In the future nuclear will be the only option for most of the world. Green dreams aside.

Not saying fracking shouldnt be done at all but
To say or ignore the fact there is a downside to Fracking is as foolish as it is irresponsible.

Green. Or I should say greener technology is going to be the move of the future. You can count on it. And that will be good for everyone including business as new technologies are developed.

Instead of condemning one or the other.  Where each opinion of which is based more on corporate money,politics and whos financial interests lie where rather then facts.
A more common sense approach would be to use all available resources and technologies in combination and responsibly.

The key word and least used principle though for either side is "responsibly".

[Ardy123]

Nat gas will probably be the the 'bridge' fuel in the US. Why? we are swimming in it. As for Germany or Japan, who knows...

as for the naysayers of renewable energy, well change scary for ya, we know, but change will happen and not 'back to the past' so suck it up, or cry about how the rest of the world left you behind.

Already in Germany 20% of their energy is from renewable resources.

oh and don't forget, green != solar panels, there are literally 100s of emerging technologies being explored from algae to biomass combustion. IF you don't beleive me, look at where the private sector money is going...

[mthrockmor]

Ardy, so many of these investments come with massive subsidies. My bro is a Wall street type, his boss is an insider. I've had lunch with him a few times as he considers different investments. He has on his Wall Street staff several federal government grant writers and several full time lobbyists. When my bros "free market" Wall Street insider considers a deal one of the first things he does is consider the potential subsidies available from Washington. I thought I knew people in DC, this guy has the cell phone number for most of the big names you hear about on TV.

While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.

As for a monthly electric bill being $2/mo, I don't doubt it. About 6 months ago I had a solar firm do a quick estimate on my home to take it off the grid via solar. I could post the actual estimate though in order to drop my bill down to zero I would need to spend over $50k in solar panels, and that includes tax subsidies. The subsidies means you folks get to help buy solar panels, batteries, etc for my house. (I'll send you a Christmas card for the help.)

I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.

Boo

[Ardy123]

While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.

No question that crony capitalism is a problem, its rife in many industries, including the oil and gas industry. Clean energy or not, your tax dollars are going to support some industry, might as well be one that is pushing our country ahead of the rest of the world. China currently leads the world in green energy investments. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14201939

That being said, many of mans greatest achievements were heavily government funded, including the technology which is allowing us to talk about it on this BBS, the internet (Darpa).

EDIT:

I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.

eek! $244 for power/gas.... I pay under $100...

Where solar panels do help are on large warehouses with huge flat roofs, in sunny environments. If you live in an area that does not have a lot of sun exposure, then there is not going to be much of a savings.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

The joke is on you.

If the technology isn't there why would one of the greatest nations ever try to socially engineer its populous?

It's there I tell you.  My car is powered by my own excrement and I get 200 mpg.

So do you haul a sewage tank with you when you go to longer trips or do you just harvest some toilets on the way? Which gallons are you talking about by the way, gallons of grey water, methane or regular gas?

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I wouldnt say its that far off though either.
One of my customers who's house is easily 3 times the size of mine had solar installed.

His electric bill in march was $2

And his solar installation bill was probably $40 000. He's going to pay 6-7 years to return the investment and then it's time to get new panels already

[DREDIOCK]

Ardy, so many of these investments come with massive subsidies. My bro is a Wall street type, his boss is an insider. I've had lunch with him a few times as he considers different investments. He has on his Wall Street staff several federal government grant writers and several full time lobbyists. When my bros "free market" Wall Street insider considers a deal one of the first things he does is consider the potential subsidies available from Washington. I thought I knew people in DC, this guy has the cell phone number for most of the big names you hear about on TV.

While it is impressive it is massively disgusting. Wall Street is not about free markets or capitalism, it is about crony-ism and tax handouts. When a deal hinges on money from DC, something is very wrong.

As for a monthly electric bill being $2/mo, I don't doubt it. About 6 months ago I had a solar firm do a quick estimate on my home to take it off the grid via solar. I could post the actual estimate though in order to drop my bill down to zero I would need to spend over $50k in solar panels, and that includes tax subsidies. The subsidies means you folks get to help buy solar panels, batteries, etc for my house. (I'll send you a Christmas card for the help.)

I pay an average of $244 a month, just did taxes to IRS. At over $50,000 it would take me over 17 years. And pray I don't need repairs or something wears out. This is why average people do not invest in them. All things considered, they do not pay for themselves.

Boo

You were mentioning subsidies?
Estimates of the value of U.S. federal subsidies to the domestic oil and gas industry alone (not coal) range from “only” $4 billion a year, to an amazing $41 billion annually. Depending on type   One recent comprehensive study of U.S. energy subsidies identified $72.5 billion in federal subsidies for fossil fuels between 2002-2008, or just over $10 billion annually.

 Subsidies for fossel fuel by far surpass those for "renewables". when there is no subsidies for those. Only then does your argument become valid

[-tronski-]

There is a lot of orchestrated opposition to fracking too. They found gas here recently and the anti fracking crowd were in action immediately. This is in spite of the fact that they found enough gas to supply the entire country for twelve years.

One of the objections they have to fracking is that it undermines the whole Green fantasy future of so called renewable energy. It also stymies their plans to cover the country in inefficient windmills.

The truth is, whatever way it goes. In the future nuclear will be the only option for most of the world. Green dreams aside.

Coal seam gas mining is great apart from the risk of poisoning groundwater - most of the anti fracking crowd here are farmers which kinda undermines the fantasy of what a greenie is

 Tronsky

[TheAssi]

 Subsidies for fossel fuel by far surpass those for "renewables". when there is no subsidies for those. Only then does your argument become valid

fossil fuels work.

[nrshida]

fossil fuels work.

Not for long matey 

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Not for long matey 

Burning rock and coal storages will supply oil for decades to come still.