Author Topic: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.  (Read 1037 times)

Offline Fencer51

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Offline Guppy35

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It's been a crazy couple weeks for warbird discovery.  Amazing what is still out there.
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Offline Charge

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He219 with only 20mm guns in belly position installed? Possibly an A6 Mossie interceptor.

Been consuming 3 books about night fighting over Germany, France and England recently. Incredible stuff and very much ignored in mainstream history.

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Offline Denniss

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He219 with only 20mm guns in belly position installed?
Standard equipment for a He 219, those with Schräge Musik had only two of them in the belly station. The 4x 3cm cannon equipment is a myth, was never used operationally.

Offline JOACH1M

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Said they might pull out a 109 and a 110. :x
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Offline Charge

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"Standard equipment for a He 219, those with Schräge Musik had only two of them in the belly station. The 4x 3cm cannon equipment is a myth, was never used operationally."

Indeed, 2 30mms for Schräge, 20mms for any other positions , belly (2 or 4) or wing root (2).

Not sure how common the wing root guns where due to possible muzzle flash issue. Not a problem for pilot but for radar officer who was facing them.

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Offline Karnak

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The 400+mph speed is also, so far as I have read, a myth.  There is a claim out there that when it entered service it racked up some huge number of kills on the previously untouchable Mosquito.  The problem with that claim is that there are no corresponding loss records for the Mosquito.
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Offline Denniss

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Indeed, 2 30mms for Schräge, 20mms for any other positions , belly (2 or 4) or wing root (2).

Not sure how common the wing root guns where due to possible muzzle flash issue. Not a problem for pilot but for radar officer who was facing them.
No, Schräge Musik installed = the belly guns in the rear position had to be removed due to space limitations. I can't really comment on a possible muzzle flash issue with wingroot guns but they may have been removed to save weight.
The 400mph might have been possible.......but only without radar antenna and with 2000+PS engines
« Last Edit: April 24, 2012, 09:56:42 AM by Denniss »

Offline Charge

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"The 400+mph speed is also, so far as I have read, a myth.  There is a claim out there that when it entered service it racked up some huge number of kills on the previously untouchable Mosquito.  The problem with that claim is that there are no corresponding loss records for the Mosquito."

You can consider He219's 400mph as much myth as Mossies flying in German airspace 400mph while carrying bombs. Mossies were shot down even by 110s so there was nothing magical in Mossies speed in practice. However, Mossie was much faster than any other of the British bombers and they were also much fewer, so even finding one in darkness was a fluke as they were not flying in bomber streams were most British losses occurred anyway.

The ridiculous claim of several Mossies shot down in short time could have been a way to convince the German brass that He219 was much needed, as it was, but still was never suppiled in adequate numbers to make a difference. Bf110 and Ju88 were enough to inflict massive losses to British bombers so that is where the Nachtjagd focused saving resources and leaving the scattered solo Mossies, whether they were pathfinders or plain bombers, to their own devices, or to be chased around by single engined Wild Boars which were more up to task anyway.

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Offline Charge

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"The 400mph might have been possible.......but only without radar antenna and with 2000+PS engines"

The modified A2s for Mossie hunting were equipped with GM-1 and FuG2205-N26 radar.

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Offline Karnak

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Re: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2012, 11:59:59 AM »
There is no myth about Mossies flying at 400mph with bombs over Germany, that simply isn't how they worked.  I think you pulled that out of your rear because you're feeling defensive over my claim that the He219's advertised 420mph speed is fake.
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Offline Charge

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Re: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2012, 12:07:44 PM »
Never seen such claim. Only 400mph. In normal configuration not even that much.

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Offline Denniss

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Re: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2012, 12:26:00 PM »
In standard configuration the A-2 was in the speedrange of the Ju 88 G-1. The A-7 was faster and should have come close to the Ju 88 G-6.
I don't know how fast the D-1 with Jumo 213E or 213F was, the Jumo 222 engined versions had a projected speed of 400mph+.

The radar antennae was responsible for a speed loss of 30-50 km/h so withouth them and with engines of 2000+ PS + decent altitude performance 400mph should have indeed been possible.

What's a FuG2205-N26 radar? Maybe FuG 220 SN-2?

Streib shot down four-engined bombers in his first operational sortie with V9, not Mossies.

Offline LLv34_Snefens

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Re: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 03:41:03 PM »
More pics from the salvage at http://www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm
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Offline Bodhi

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Re: 20 Spits, a P-40 in the desert, how about one for theLW.. He 219 found.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 06:07:56 PM »
It's been a crazy couple weeks for warbird discovery.  Amazing what is still out there.


You have no idea.....  :t
There are a tremendous number of wrecks and abandoned aircraft that are still available.  Cost of recovery and dealing with local governments is usually what holds the recoveries up.
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