really hitec

[dirtdart]

I understand this, but the question is in the way the game is modeled.  For example, to kill the pintle gun on a tank, you have to hit the gun, so the brave pintle gunner can fire away exposed until the actual gun is destroyed.  Same thing in buffs, there is likely a very small area where if it receives damage the gun is rendered ineffective.  So, when a 76mm projectile defeats the armor and penetrates, what does it have to hit to kill the tank?  Gas? Ammo?

[321BAR]

what people need to realize there are GLARING weaknesses and GLARING sweet spots and hard points in each tank. one being the lower pnzrIV's glacis plate (hard point), and another being the M4s lower glacis plate (sweet spot). The panthers turret ring is either always instadeath or at least a turreted panther. even the tigers turret ring (although miniscule) can be penetrated from the front (if you can even see the %&#^$@...). it seems the king tigers side rear turret is a good spot also to turret the bastard in 1 or 2 shots. although the KTs tracks are a lovily spot sometimes in the right cases to shoot at seeing as how the lower tracks armor behind it is weaker than the upper half.

learn the sweet spots on each tank and youll live alot longer.

[SmokinLoon]

I know the KwK 43 has that modeled (LuscheI think did some tests, and found the AP shells of the 88mm were as effective as the HE shells of a 75mm).


But IIRC, most of Germany's shells weren't APCBCHE, they were only APCBC.

I've tested all the weapons within the last year.  I've got a spread sheet and some units have it available on their website.  I've offered to give it to the AH Trainers, but still to this day they use a very old and outdated list. Not sure why. 

The 88mm HE does 234 lbs of damage to an OBJ, the 88mm AP does 117 lbs of damage.  Also, remember that the AP has no splash damage unlike the HE.

The 75mm HE (Panther and all 3 Pzr IV variants) does 156 lbs of damage and the AP does 78 lbs.  On a side note, the M4/75 HE does 178 lbs damage and the AP does 78 lbs damage. The M4/76 HE does 103 lbs of damage and the AP does 78 lbs of damage. 

[The Fugitive]

what people need to realize there are GLARING weaknesses and GLARING sweet spots and hard points in each tank. one being the lower pnzrIV's glacis plate (hard point), and another being the M4s lower glacis plate (sweet spot). The panthers turret ring is either always instadeath or at least a turreted panther. even the tigers turret ring (although miniscule) can be penetrated from the front (if you can even see the %&#^$@...). it seems the king tigers side rear turret is a good spot also to turret the bastard in 1 or 2 shots. although the KTs tracks are a lovily spot sometimes in the right cases to shoot at seeing as how the lower tracks armor behind it is weaker than the upper half.

learn the sweet spots on each tank and youll live alot longer.

Thats all fine and dandy, but can you really see these "spots" are are you just guessing? How close are you when your shooting at these tanks?

Me, I take two shots, first is more often than not a miss, but the second is almost always a hit. I get a hit sprite and then I see the incoming round and I'm in the tower  I'm happy to hit a tank on the second shot, but I can NOT tell you where on that tank I'm going to hit.

Is this some fantasy that you "good tankers" imagine your doing? Am I shooting from too far away? Am I blind?

[Butcher]

Butcher, you've been saying this for a while, but I'm confused on a point or two.

When you say "but often times its.... all the way", do you mean that the game is giving out erroneous hit sprites? From my expirience, you only get a hit sprite if you actually penetrate the armor, and that if you don't penetrate the armor (both from deflections, and just non-penetrations) the game represents it visually as a ricochet.



Same with the Panzer IV firing on a Tiger I. You get either a hit sprite and a kill after a couple of shells, or a ricochet. However its important to note that the offline drones don't have a real damage model, and are all or nothing.

It's erroneous hit sprites, I can get a ricochet and still have a hit sprite, offline doesn't count as it doesn't count for LAG or tanks moving which don't help explain any easier.
Here's an example: if you aim for the rear of a T34/85 above the engine compartment - Three things can happen: Track Hit, Engine Hit, Ricochet off the armor, all three will give a Hit sprite, with only the engine hit doing any damage (Disabling the engine).
If you aim high, it will show a hit sprite, yet it ricochets off the armor, dealing no damage.

Hooter and myself tested this a few times a while back in the Panther, same argument is applied for the 30mm in the 109,  many many players see hit sprites, but the round does no damage at all.

[Tank-Ace]

I'm not sure thats quite how it works Butcher. As I understand it, what one player sees on his screen doesn't nessicarily reflect what others see on theirs. However, if one player makes a shot and lands hits from HIS perspective, then the player that was hit will recieve hits, regardless of what was happening on his OWN screen.

IIRC, what happens on your screen (hits, damage recieved, etc) is transmitted from your computer to the central server, and then to other players. This explains how people can clearly impact an object, and then keep flying for a little while before exploding; They know they've crashed, the server knows they've crashed a short period after it actually happens, but your computer is as of yet unaware of the fact. Your computer extrapolates a flight path for their aircraft and has that visually displayed on your screen, untill it gets the information from the server that says that guy hit the hanger and blew up. At that point, the game corrects for its error, and has the guy explode on your screen seconds after the event actually occured.


As for the erroneous hit sprits: only the ricochet would be erroneous. The track hit still caused damage, just not enough to disable the tracks or anything.


And even when I had crappy internet, I never had problems with the game giving false hit sprites. If I hit on my screen, then 90% of the time, what I expected to see happen actually happened. Then there are the 10% of the times where your aim was off and just hit the Panzer IV's hull instead of his turret, or hit the track instead of his side armor. In either case, I never expirienced anything that was not explainable by error on my part.

[Butcher]

And even when I had crappy internet, I never had problems with the game giving false hit sprites. If I hit on my screen, then 90% of the time, what I expected to see happen actually happened. Then there are the 10% of the times where your aim was off and just hit the Panzer IV's hull instead of his turret, or hit the track instead of his side armor. In either case, I never expirienced anything that was not explainable by error on my part.

If you film each sortie and play it back in slow motion you can understand it better, Film viewer is a problem as you can't see down the gun sight - you only see the shots being taken and you have to watch and run it at speeds of 0.11 or so to watch the impact.

RedDevil was having massive problems in tanks, I had him film one sortie where he claims every round was a kill shot when in fact it went like this:

You were in a Panther - at 6:38 you slammed a round in the tracks of a Panzer 4, no damage done.
Second shot slammed into the Turret for a kill.
Third shot was 7:15 - was a Glancing blow off the Turret - no damage would be caused.
4th Shot was at 7:23 - was a Glancing blow off the curved plate of the front armor - common mistake when aiming at a Panzer, you either hit the lower front hull, Hull or turret, do not aim below the driver view area
7:30 was the 5th shot to the Driver View Area - a kill shot
6th shot at 9:00 - a miss howver there was an assist on this target, not sure if I missed the shot
7th shot: 9:47 - miss on an m3
8th shot: 9:53 - hit on passenger door of the M3, results in a kill
9th shot: 9:59 - missed above the tank
10th shot: 10:05 missed above the tank
11th shot: 10:12 lower hull hit - kill shot
12th shot: 13:25 missed in front of the tank
13th shot: 13:38 missed
14th shot: 13:42 missed
15h shot: 13:49 missed
16th shot: 13:54 missed
17th shot: 15:53 missed

He was getting ricochets and hit spirtes, however some where simply misses and vice versa, glancing blows without any damage. One huge problem with the film viewer, is you can't see tanks at a distance if you are trying to watch a friendly.
I routinely fire above 2000 yards, sometimes you have to track the shell to the target to get an idea what you are aiming at (as you wont see icons at that range for some reason?).

In all 80% of my hits are no problem, 20% I still believe there is something screwy with tanking - i.e today I bounced a round of a T34/85's butt at 600 yards out and some reason my film viewer didn't save the run, I want to see exactly HOW a 75mm L/70 bounces a round off any armor at that distance.

[Tank-Ace]

I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps its a bug that came up since I left. All I know is that, even firing at long ranges, I either got a ricochet, or a hit sprite that was rewarded with either a turret smoking, engine smoking, or a tank disapearing after the second hit.


As to the L'70 at 600yds, did you hit at an extreme angle? Perhaps you clipped the top of his rear hull armor (and I mean the VERY top, like where it starts to turn into engine decking armor), which caused the game to be confused as to where precicely to record the hit; on the rear of the tank which would be a penetration, or on the engine decking which, hitting at almost 90 degrees of slope, would be a deflection.


I'm not saying its LIKELY, all I'm saying is that its PLAUSIBLE.

[Iraqvet]

There are weak spots on "All tanks". Second of all and most inportant of all is "Proper" RANGE. I cannot preach this enough even at close range. Simply because you have a sprite does not consitiute a penetrating hit.
The biggest problem I see most often is people complaining that they have hits on tanks that they do not.....most often they are deflection shots, or shot that did not penetrate armor.

[Butcher]

There are weak spots on "All tanks". Second of all and most inportant of all is "Proper" RANGE. I cannot preach this enough even at close range. Simply because you have a sprite does not consitiute a penetrating hit.
The biggest problem I see most often is people complaining that they have hits on tanks that they do not.....most often they are deflection shots, or shot that did not penetrate armor.

One reason I sit in a Panther, I don't worry about deflection shots, anything not a Tiger or KT is usually dead under 3k (assuming you arn't hitting a T34's turret at 3k like an idiot).

[321BAR]

Thats all fine and dandy, but can you really see these "spots" are are you just guessing? How close are you when your shooting at these tanks?

Me, I take two shots, first is more often than not a miss, but the second is almost always a hit. I get a hit sprite and then I see the incoming round and I'm in the tower  I'm happy to hit a tank on the second shot, but I can NOT tell you where on that tank I'm going to hit.

Is this some fantasy that you "good tankers" imagine your doing? Am I shooting from too far away? Am I blind?

im not guessing theyre how i kill each tank every time i rarely shoot a ping round anymore because i wait for the shot to get it.