Please rename "Axis vs Allies" arena to "SEA 3"

[jimson]

We have run some campaign type things in the past and will in the future. We may also at some point try a WW2 timeline.

We do some rolling plane sets, there is one running now. We have to go in and manually add new planes at whatever time we decide.

In order to run something where a victory occurs, we have to decide what constitutes a victory and when it is reached we have to go in and change everything by hand to the next set up in the timeline.

This means we either have to constantly monitor the arena or set deadlines. Say, whoever does such and such by midnight on Thursday or whatever, wins.

We also have problems with people going in and taking all the objectives against no defense when the arena is empty.

Once everyone is aware of these limitations, they can suggest their ideas along with ways to overcome the limitations.

[Puma44]

How come the players that have never been seen in the AvA always know how to "fix" it?  Some might consider 8-10 players in an arena as empty.  I'll take the quality of the fights you find with that 8-10 players over the MA arcade any day.

Spot on Ranger!  

[Zoney]

It sits empty.

It is impossible for it go get any emptier.

Ya know he has a very valid point here.  If ya try the rolling planeset as he suggests for a month, at the worst it wil be a tie for attendance, at zero.

Heck trying anything would be better than nothing.

[Shuffler]

Trying to thread the needle between being a scenario arena and a 24/7 open arena.

The worse attendance we ever get is when we just load a map and plane set and forget it.

AVA was killed by a select few folks that used to go there. Now it suffers because no one has gone back.

If it ever became the AVA again folks may return... it wont happen overnight. I tried it and was having a pretty good time till they started up with mini scenarios.

I don't even look at WWI or AVA anymore. I could not tell you how many go there.

I know yall are trying your best to garner interest..... I just lost all faith in it ever returning.

How come the players that have never been seen in the AvA always know how to "fix" it?  Some might consider 8-10 players in an arena as empty.  I'll take the quality of the fights you find with that 8-10 players over the MA arcade any day.

Way back the quality was there till a select few came in, as I said, and killed it. The quality you speak of now is few and far between. The last 2 times I tried the arena all I ran into was folks trying to ho and run to base.

[captain1ma]

Ya know he has a very valid point here.  If ya try the rolling planeset as he suggests for a month, at the worst it wil be a tie for attendance, at zero.

Heck trying anything would be better than nothing.

what nights can we plan on seeing you in there?

[Chilli]

Ya know he has a very valid point here.  If ya try the rolling planeset as he suggests for a month, at the worst it wil be a tie for attendance, at zero.

Heck trying anything would be better than nothing.

If anyone is SERIOUSLY interested in seeing any numbers improve in the arena, it is very simple.  Put your $15 bucks where your mouth is.  In other words, go into a populated arena and ask if anyone would care to join you doing "___________________" in the AvA?  When you get 1, 2 or more that are willing to go, log into the arena and stay for 30 mins or so.  Then you will see, that since you have invested that portion of your $15 bucks worth of subscription time, it was well worth the investment of volunteered time that the group of AvA staff have dedicated to CREATING weekly 24 hour a day scenarios.

Oh, and while you are actually in the arena with someone else that you have invited TOO HAVE SOME FUN, take the few seconds that it should take to read the MOTD (message of the day), which suggests different game play elements that are quite different from the Main Arenas.  For instance:  fuel burn, auto ack lethality, radar or icon range changes, etc...

The AvA arena could always improve, but until they have more tools and/ or manpower to do so ..... it is not the Arena that is lacking, but those   who look at the number on the server and lack the initiative to get things started that are missing out on the experience.

_{On this subject, anyone who just logs in and simply occupies the arena while afk, distracts from the above statement as much or even more than it brings attention to the arena.  If I see numbers on the server, I am looking for some interaction, I have entered the arena with expectations that I will most likely will not find (that is referring to most casual investigators).  So until AI are able to populate the arena, I would not recommend seeding the arena in this fashion.}

[LCADolby]

Invite me to be your opposition icepac, I'll fly Axis and happily shoot at you all night in the AvA.

A fair few tours ago there was a fantastic bunch of fights on the Italy and Finland map where new aircraft were enabled as new bases were taken. They were a bit of fun.

[Ruah]

I check the population numbers before I log in and after I log out. . . if I see more then 10 in there I will drop dy.

[Chilli]

AVA was killed by a select few folks that used to go there. Now it suffers because no one has gone back.

If it ever became the AVA again folks may return... it wont happen overnight. I tried it and was having a pretty good time till they started up with mini scenarios.

I don't even look at WWI or AVA anymore. I could not tell you how many go there.

I know yall are trying your best to garner interest..... I just lost all faith in it ever returning.
Way back the quality was there till a select few came in, as I said, and killed it. The quality you speak of now is few and far between. The last 2 times I tried the arena all I ran into was folks trying to ho and run to base.

I have to say Shuffler may be right about quality and temperment of players.  I just don't think this is unique to the AvA nor does it have to do with the types of scenarios.  I attribute these problems to tide of the flight sim gaming community as a whole.    The old dogs of AH who appreciate the  challenge of a good fight. 

The roll over in account subscriptions has business implications.  Accounts were kept alive at one time by folks that were dedicated to FSO, other special events and the AvA (or former version called the Combat Theater).  Younger / newer subscribers may have other reasons to join the community.  This cross section of players may not be as interested in flight models and historical combat or combat techniques.  This does not mean that you could not teach them.  Someone HO's you and then runs back to his base (which by the way ack ack doesn't help very much - if they read the MOTD), you could point to several things (teachable moment) about the arena that they may not be aware of:

• HO is a low percentage of victory shot in most cases, much better percentage when you are dead 6
• There are no perk points to be gained or lost, so a better calculation of risks taken equal increased knowledge / fun
• Field ack will most likely not save you, rather tie you to a predictible flight path
• Point out all of the advantages that his/her aircraft has over your particular aircraft, and what he could have done differently

[Lusche]

I check the population numbers before I log in and after I log out. . . if I see more then 10 in there I will drop dy.

The old "I'd go there if someone were there" dilemma. All minor arenas suffer from it, ironically quite a number of players would drop into WW1 or EW occasionally "if someone was there". Almost impossible to overcome, as it needs a high number of people going there in the first place. This is hardly anything that can be influenced by settings or individual player action. (Tank town on trinity is a LWMA example of that effect)

[CAP1]

A long time back it used to be but now it gets changed around so much trying to be a SEA III.

 that is because jaegr1 works his bellybutton off trying to give players what they want. he really does listen, and try to adjust to requests. the funny thing is how many people say "if you make XX setup, me and my squad will be there."......he makes that setup, and guess who doesn't show?

[Chilli]

Lusche,

I agree to an extent.  The difference being that AvA events are generally designed with smaller numbers in mind.  They do not need a large number to be enjoyable.  Some of my most enjoyable and active moments in the arena have been with 5 or less participants.  The same is true for a Dualing Arena with low numbers (more enjoyable).

As for what could impact this "catch 22" of no one is in there, so no one goes in there, I believe that even if crappy AI planes were available (even drones) the numbers would see a significant bump, which is all the AvA needs to catch its momentum. 

I know, I have been there and logged many hours just from inviting one or two over from the MA.  The result was usually several other curious players who joined in.  Sometimes, on their first visit they were hooked and joined a squad with me to return for many more hours of fun.  If AvA (historical or special events) enthusiasts didn't have to wait for someone else to populate the arena and still record sortees against AI while enjoying the awesome custom setups, it might just catch like wildfire.

[icepac]

What's more realistic than an arena where you have the same airplane matchups that occurred in real life.

It works elsewhere and that's where I go when I want a more realistic experience.

[Lusche]

Lusche,

I agree to an extent.  The difference being that AvA events are generally designed with smaller numbers in mind.  They do not need a large number to be enjoyable.  Some of my most enjoyable and active moments in the arena have been with 5 or less participants.  The same is true for a Dualing Arena with low numbers (more enjoyable).

The "enjoyable" thing is very subjective and individually. I didn't said it's generally "less fun" for everyone... But for most players (and in this case including me) low numbers are an absolute turn off. That's why "numbers do breed numbers", and many players would love to join a genuine Axis vs Allies setup, if "only someone was there to play with" - with "someone" ranging from "at least one" to "100 or so"

For the record, literally everytime I'm on (and you know I track these things *g*) the numbers in the AvA are.... 0. And when the population is zero, the setting doesn't matter much at all

[Lusche]

What's more realistic than an arena where you have the same airplane matchups that occurred in real life.

Which is offered by the AvA already and numbers are still... uhm... low.
Players base there descisions of where to play on several criteria, and for the majority a "realistic planeset" in the way you are  describing it is clearly not the top one.