Author Topic: New Stuka  (Read 6240 times)

Offline crazyivan

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #150 on: May 11, 2012, 08:18:51 PM »
What no bomb with the pawn cannon waaaaaa! :ahand I love mah stuka, and win afew A2A victories with so don't fudge her up. :furious

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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #151 on: May 11, 2012, 09:44:49 PM »
Hurri D certainly is not 'less accurate'
aim right and it will go just where you aim it. consider gravity, lead and the position of your guns (if you are a litle leaned the shots will go differently then if you have both wingtips at same altitude) It won't just go random, it IS accurate as the IL-2, but the IL-2 'feels' more accurate due to its ROF

The way you use those planes are also different. at least the way I use them differ to much and I still see many people augerin' on them because they think it's the same thing.

OK, perhaps the weapons are just as accurate. But I maintain that the IID is just a less stable firing platform, especially for sustained fire. The ROF itself has nothing to do with the percieved accuracy.

The biggest issue is how the IID's verticle stabalizers just aren't upto the task of handling recoil from the 40mm's. Now maybe the IL-2's guns just have less recoil, maybe the verticle stab is bigger, maybe all that weight in armor has something to do with it. But the IL-2 is a much more stable platform for sustained fire.

I also maintain that, excluding travle time to the fighting, the IL-2 is more effective at quickly dispatching vehicles. And that matters, and matters a LOT in many circumstances.

You don't tend to need things dead, and dead fast, unless things are getting out of controll and you're getting swarmed. If things are perfectly fine, and you've got the situation handled, then you generally have time to up a Panther or Tiger II and go on a rampage, or wait for ordnance to pop.


Another reason the Stuka will be preferable to the IL-2 and IID in many instances is that the bomber hangers are often the last structures to be targeted by attackers, which means that the Stuka will be one of the most effective anti-GV aircraft available when things are getting down to the wire.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #152 on: May 11, 2012, 10:01:51 PM »
Another reason the Stuka will be preferable to the IL-2 and IID in many instances is that the bomber hangers are often the last structures to be targeted by attackers, which means that the Stuka will be one of the most effective anti-GV aircraft available when things are getting down to the wire.
That assumes that the Ju87G-2 is spawned by the Bomber Hangars.  It is likely, given what happened to the Il-2, that the Ju87G-2 will also spawn from fighter hangars.
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Offline Raphael

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #153 on: May 11, 2012, 10:08:49 PM »
You don't tend to need things dead, and dead fast, unless things are getting out of controll and you're getting swarmed. If things are perfectly fine, and you've got the situation handled, then you generally have time to up a Panther or Tiger II and go on a rampage, or wait for ordnance to pop.
Not us tank bustin' dweebs, when ords are down its a good oportunity as it means Gv's will come and there are not gonna be 100 Jabos and A20s flying over the spawn
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #154 on: May 11, 2012, 10:12:30 PM »
That assumes that the Ju87G-2 is spawned by the Bomber Hangars.  It is likely, given what happened to the Il-2, that the Ju87G-2 will also spawn from fighter hangars.

I'm not so sure about that. A big reason the IL-2 was as effective as it was at base defense (one of the biggest reasons they moved it to the FH, if I understand), was because of its high ROF and high ammo load.

It could even be used as a persuado fighter with the 23mm's.


However the Stuka's won't be as effective in the base defense role. Both because of the lower ROF of the guns, lower ammo capacity, and because they lack the Il-2's heavy armor.
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Offline morfiend

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #155 on: May 12, 2012, 12:26:19 AM »
I'm not so sure about that. A big reason the IL-2 was as effective as it was at base defense (one of the biggest reasons they moved it to the FH, if I understand), was because of its high ROF and high ammo load.

It could even be used as a persuado fighter with the 23mm's.


However the Stuka's won't be as effective in the base defense role. Both because of the lower ROF of the guns, lower ammo capacity, and because they lack the Il-2's heavy armor.


   The reason it was moved is simple,the F3 view is tied to the hanger type! If it launches from a bomber hanger it has F3 it it launches from a fighter hanger F3 is only available during taxi.


   Karnak, I agree the Hs129 was heavily armoured,part of the reason for the poor performance and would make a cool addition but so would adding the BK to the 110G or and the Mk101 30mm to the 110C if it was like Xmas or something..... :devil




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Offline Rich52

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #156 on: May 12, 2012, 06:52:16 AM »
The reason the IL2 was so effective was since FHs are normally the girst things bombed, along with the VH, you always had the BH/IL2s left to defend the base with. Now you can take out the entire shabang just by bombing the FHs. You dont even have to hit the ords since the BHs are full of clumsy perkmakers.

And if your in an agile fighter, with far better performance in every category, you have to be just as big a schmuck to get killed by 23mm IL2s as 37mm IL2s. Maybe bigger.
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Offline R 105

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #157 on: May 12, 2012, 07:02:57 AM »
 Henschel HS-129 ground attack plane with French motors.

Engines. Two 700hp Gnome-Rhone 14M 04/05 Radials. Span 46ft 7in, Length 31ft 11in, Wt 9,259lb (plus fuel crew and armament)  Speed 253 at 12,000 ft. It don't sound like it would have had any advantage over the JU-87G in speed or weight ratio with about the same horse power of the JU-87D-3s Jumo 211 engine with 1,400 HP. But protection from ground fire was very good in the 129s.

 I think the Germans pawned the HS-129 off on the Rumanians at first but did start to use them in Africa and Russia later until production of the HS-129 stopped in 1944. I only looked at one small bit of information on the 129. I am sure there is much more information out there on the HS-129 but this thread on the new JU-87G has been hijacked enough as it is. 

Offline PR3D4TOR

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #158 on: May 12, 2012, 10:09:23 AM »
The Hs 129 couldn't fly well on one engine, but it would get home. Power to weight and top speed are about equal to the Il-2 in a loaded configuration. Clean the Il-2 has slightly better performance.
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Offline Volron

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #159 on: May 12, 2012, 12:13:20 PM »
I think the Il-2 was moved into the FH's is because at one point the Russians pressed it into the fighter role if I recall correctly, which it was of course ill suited for.  The single seat variant; and maybe the dual seat variant?  I wouldn't think the Stuka would be pressed into the FH, but instead, remain in the BH.  Unless the Stuka was used in a fighter role at any point during it's career. :headscratch:
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Offline Karnak

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #160 on: May 12, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »
I think the Il-2 was moved into the FH's is because at one point the Russians pressed it into the fighter role if I recall correctly, which it was of course ill suited for.  The single seat variant; and maybe the dual seat variant?  I wouldn't think the Stuka would be pressed into the FH, but instead, remain in the BH.  Unless the Stuka was used in a fighter role at any point during it's career. :headscratch:
No, the Il-2 was moved to the fighter hanger to remove the F3 view from it because some players, Ghi most notably, were using it as a fighter with F3 view.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #161 on: May 12, 2012, 12:33:26 PM »
I wonder why the Germans decided to use those weak french engines. I mean slap on a couple of DB 601's and you've got a real killer there.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #162 on: May 12, 2012, 12:34:46 PM »
I wonder why the Germans decided to use those weak french engines.

Because they were available. ;)
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #163 on: May 12, 2012, 12:36:56 PM »
So were DB's. Personally, I think the HS-129 had more potential than some other projects they put DB's on.
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Offline Karnak

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Re: New Stuka
« Reply #164 on: May 12, 2012, 01:03:32 PM »
So were DB's. Personally, I think the HS-129 had more potential than some other projects they put DB's on.
No, the DBs were not available.  Production is not unlimited and apparently the Germans disagreed with on that.

I also don't think they could have fit two DBs on it.  It isn't that big.
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