My view on (F3) views

[deSelys]

Recap: AH allows the use of the external views online on multi-crew planes, to emulate the increased SA brought by the extra pairs of MkI eyeballs on board.

Pro: simple to use (and to code I guess)
Con: detrimental to immersion factor (unless you have already experienced lots of out-of-body excursions), subject to abuse (mostly Il2 and planes equipped with forward facing guns)

At the moment, AH is sitting somewhat between 2 chairs because F3 view has been disabled in some dual-crew planes (Bf110, Il2...) while still available in other (SDB, Stuka, Boston...)*. The choice to disable the F3 view has mostly been based on the way the plane is used:

• if it can dogfight with some efficiency => disabled
• if it cannot => enabled

This bandaid-class of solution leads to some weird situations: the Arado 234, although single-crew and with a poor rear-quarter view, has the F3 view enabled.  
Sidenote

• I like to fly the 234 myself so I'm just mentioning it for the "realism" sake and not to have it porked, so 234 drivers put down the pitchfork pls thx  
• The rear facing periscope doesn't justify such a perfect outside view as offered by the F3 system. According to wikipedia:
  

  Since the cockpit was directly in front of the fuselage, the pilot had no direct view to the rear, so the guns were aimed through a periscope, derived from the type used on German World War II tanks, mounted on the cockpit roof. The system was generally considered useless, and many pilots had the guns removed to save weight.

My humble suggestion for a quickfix:

• F3 views only IF crew >=2 AND at least 1 crew is not looking directly forward** (whatever the role of the plane) UNLESS flown in 3 planes formation (this only for bombers obviously)
• IF the formation is reduced to 1 plane AND crew requirement in point above is not met (from damage or by plane design) THEN no more F3 view until the end of the flight***
• while looking in F3 view: impossible to maneuver, shoot guns or rockets, drop bombs or even fart in the general enemy direction
• IF F3 is entered while in an autopilot mode THEN autopilot stays on ELSE stick and rudder are centered according to trim settings, throttle friction on

* pls correct me if I'm wrong

** i.e. Mossie (pilot and co-pilot side by side): no F3 view; Il2: F3 view unless gunner is shot (or too drunk from vodka); B25C with bombsight: F3 view unless top gunner is disabled; Ar234 no F3 view...

*** i.e. Ar234 flying in 3 plane formation: F3 view enabled. Same formation loses 2 planes: F3 view disabled


Flame on!

[SEseph]

• The rear facing periscope doesn't justify such a perfect outside view as offered by the F3 system. According to wikipedia:

Bad source.

There will never be a simple solution to alot of these issues and F3 is one of them. Right now it's at a good balance, at least IMO.

[Slade]

Tweak:
While looking in F3 view = impossible to shoot forward facing guns.

That would work for me.  Just that is enough.  Simply less "gamey" (even though this is a game).  Less arcade-ish if you wish.


Thanks  

[RedBull1]

you've named every plane but the 1 that actually needs F3 removed... The A20 

[cobia38]

you've named every plane but the 1 that actually needs F3 removed... The A20 

  yes please remove F3 from A-20 and give it the 4 x 20mm package ...........fair trade 

[RedBull1]

 yes please remove F3 from A-20 and give it the 4 x 20mm package ...........fair trade  

When a plane (A20) can stick stir, Puch neg G's, dive/go 300 to 400+ MPH?, not rip anything off, out turn like 50% of fighters, has like 6 50 cals in the nose... It does not need F3!  

[cobia38]

When a plane (A20) can stick stir, Puch neg G's, dive/go 300 to 400+ MPH?, not rip anything off, out turn like 50% of fighters, has like 6 50 cals in the nose... It does not need F3!  

  pilots stickstir,not planes. you can dive around 425 and keep parts if you know the limits "this takes time to learn,i know its a hard concept to grasp"     

[Shuffler]

A-20 a fun bird

[morfiend]

  yes please remove F3 from A-20 and give it the 4 x 20mm package ...........fair trade 

   Your just looking to save HTC $$$ on 50cal rounds arent you??   But why stop there? Remove F3 and add 4x20mm plus the 2 50's,your still saving HTC about 2/3's of the 50 cal ammo you use!



     

[4Prop]

   Your just looking to save HTC $$$ on 50cal rounds arent you??   But why stop there? Remove F3 and add 4x20mm plus the 2 50's,your still saving HTC about 2/3's of the 50 cal ammo you use!



     

Im pretty sure a 20mm shell costs more then a 50

[cobia38]

   Your just looking to save HTC $$$ on 50cal rounds arent you??   But why stop there? Remove F3 and add 4x20mm plus the 2 50's,your still saving HTC about 2/3's of the 50 cal ammo you use!



     

   yes !!!!! brilliant,this would end the F3 crying while at same time saving $$ its a win win   

[morfiend]

Im pretty sure a 20mm shell costs more then a 50

  It's an old joke you havent been around long enough to know,maybe it's an inside joke between Cobia and myself, so I forget sometimes... I call it sometimerz!



   

[Rich52]

F3 was removed from the IL2, and it was tossed in the FH, cause it was just to good at killing tanks. Setting up in F3 gave you such high angles of attack, and with two NS-37s and all that ammo, for anyone with any skill?? Pretty much the tank was as good as dead. At least for me, and I suck at this game. Tankers are a huge part of this game and the new tanks have brought much excitement TO the game. A decision was made. It is what it is. I'd be surprised if F3 was removed from anything else.

But tank hunters have been rewarded with the coming 87-G   so its time to move on.

[Acidrain]

F3 was removed from the IL2, and it was tossed in the FH, cause it was just to good at killing tanks. Setting up in F3 gave you such high angles of attack, and with two NS-37s and all that ammo, for anyone with any skill?? Pretty much the tank was as good as dead. At least for me, and I suck at this game. Tankers are a huge part of this game and the new tanks have brought much excitement TO the game. A decision was made. It is what it is. I'd be surprised if F3 was removed from anything else.

But tank hunters have been rewarded with the coming 87-G   so its time to move on.

and the result has been that one of the best if not the best tank busters of the war is rarely used to bust tanks 

[morfiend]

F3 was removed from the IL2, and it was tossed in the FH, cause it was just to good at killing tanks. Setting up in F3 gave you such high angles of attack, and with two NS-37s and all that ammo, for anyone with any skill?? Pretty much the tank was as good as dead. At least for me, and I suck at this game. Tankers are a huge part of this game and the new tanks have brought much excitement TO the game. A decision was made. It is what it is. I'd be surprised if F3 was removed from anything else.

But tank hunters have been rewarded with the coming 87-G   so its time to move on.

  Rich it wasnt "tossed" into the fighter hanger,it was move to the FH because views are tyed to the hanger so in order to remove F3 it had to be moved.

       That said I dont think it was needed myself but the whines about it were becomming intolerable so those in charge did something about it.  It doesnt mean that I cant be moved back to the BH but I wouldnt count on it.