Some thoughts on views.

[Fenin]

Hikkos here, trying to... deduce something.

Tonight, I've had a bit of an eye opening experience while playing AH.  I have been playing flight simulators for years (since I was about the age of 5 or so, starting with offline DOS Air Warrior) and have considered myself to be a mediocre to poor shot, at best.  I find myself in numerous situations where I could get a decent deflection shot, but miss, by a large margin.

To put it simply, I can not hit the broad side of a barn, if it was flying at the same speed, at the exact same altitude, and at my convergence distance.  Even with 8 .50s.  Nominally, when I get a kill it is because I was lucky.

This has been my experience in Aces High as well, on and off, since about summer of 06', when I started.

Tonight though, I had something strange happen to me, two somethings.  That I'm sure are related.

First off, I decided randomly to up in the F6F-5 Hellcat.  It wasn't the first time I've flown the bird, but it was so close to it that I might as well have been new to it.  And I realized something that I do, and decided to break it down a bit.

Broken down as such.

1. When I am attempting to make a shot, I turn the zoom toggle on.

2. When I am attempting to make a shot, I have a pre-set 'forward' hat switch, that pushes my cartoon pilots head all the way forward, so I can see over the nose a bit.

These two combined things generally tend to keep me focused in aircraft such as the Yak-9U, or any other cowl mounted birds.  Due to my horrid accuracy at best, I prefer not to have to deal with convergence issues. 

One of the problems I have been having just recently is that I upgraded from an Extreme 3d Pro joystick, to an X52.  I had been wanting one since 08', and I can honestly say that I love it already.  The problem was, anytime my ACMs got heated, and I would 'lean forward' to fire, my cartoon pilot would look forward for a second, then twist his head off to the right.

This was of course due to me pushing the hat switch in that direction at the worst possible moment.

So I played around with the views a bit in the Hellcat.  I ended up putting my 'default' not modified by zoom, or hat switch, view all the way forward.  The base of the gun sight being at the bottom of my monitor.  Switched my hat switch forward to zoom BACKWARDS and allow me to look at my instrument panel.

Suddenly, everything seemed to click into place.  I began to make deflection shots just fine.  I even proceeded to shoot down more aircraft in one night then I do in four. 


Has anyone else ever attempted this?  I remember reading somewhere that in Aces High, when you do what I did with the views you're seeing a very condensed near 1:1 scale, is this true?  I just don't understand it, I was too consistent to just be 'lucky' this time.

I know the Hellcat itself played a hand in it, due to having more lead pouring out of its guns.  But surely it couldn't have played THAT big of a difference, right?

[hitech]

Has anyone else ever attempted this?  I remember reading somewhere that in Aces High, when you do what I did with the views you're seeing a very condensed near 1:1 scale, is this true?  I just don't understand it, I was too consistent to just be 'lucky' this time.

Scaling depends completely on monitor size and how far away you are from the monitor. If you think of the monitor as a window, and the picture you are looking at is out side the window. As you zoom in and out, it is the same as going closer or farther from the window. Think how you would see a wider angle as you get closer to the window.

Now if your screen matches the same image as it would when you look out a window, with the screen the same distance away as the window. It is a one to one. But if you just move your head closer or farther away from the screen with out changing zoom, the image would no longer overlay the window picture, and hence is not 1 to 1.

HiTech

[Torquila]

Im not sure if I should fall asleep or try to answer this curiosity!

"Two weeks!"

There, that explains it!        

But seriously bro, flying with your default view all the way forward? Never would of tried that, it really sounds like your problem lies not in your skill or experience, but how you think about them. When situations arise that sudden changes in your setup effects your ability, it usually is down to your brain overthinking things!    

[morfiend]

Fenin,

  The F6f could have a little to do with it,if your used to using central mounted guns you will see that the bullet stream is pretty compact. Now with the wing mounted guns on the F6f they are spread out and only have a compact bullet stream at convergence range,anything less or more will have much more bullet disperssion and increase your chance of hitting something.

  Whether this is the case or not I cant say for sure but thats mostly because I dont quite understand how your using your views.

    You can use the dot target command and look at the bullet pattern,set the target 200 yards further than convergence range and fire a good long burst then zoom in on target and check the pattern,you can do the same for closer than convergence and at convergence and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.  Then repeat with central mounted guns and notice the difference.



    

[PFactorDave]

One of the problems I have been having just recently is that I upgraded from an Extreme 3d Pro joystick, to an X52.  I had been wanting one since 08', and I can honestly say that I love it already.  The problem was, anytime my ACMs got heated, and I would 'lean forward' to fire, my cartoon pilot would look forward for a second, then twist his head off to the right.

This was of course due to me pushing the hat switch in that direction at the worst possible moment.
 

I went through a period of time where I used a forward hat view to "lean into" the gun site, so to speak.  I also had the occaisional, look to the side at the worst possible time.

First thing I did was to take that view off of the hat switch.  I decided that it was causing me to spoil my aim by bouncing the nose as well as causing the look the wrong way problem.

I went for awhile without using zoom at all, which I feel helped to improve my SA.

Now days, I have a moderate amount of zoom programmed to a button on my throttle.  So, if I want to zoom in a bit, I can do so without accidentally affecting my stick.

[Vinkman]

Hikkos here, trying to... deduce something.
Omitted

I think the problem is Zooming at all. When flying around your brain develops an understanding of speed and distance, angle, and lead required based on what you see. Zooming changing that whole reference point. The distance between the dot in your gunsight and the enemy plane increases dramatically making you think you are pulling more lead than you are. I think the reason you are having sucess flying around Zoomed all the time has more to due with consistancy, and less to due with the better view zooming provides. Zooming reduces your field of view and will make SA and Sissors maneuvers, and tracking and bandit in general harder imo.

Try NOT zooming when you shoot.  I almost never zoom to shoot. I will occasionally if a bandit is running straight away from me, at very long distance and I want to better see how the tracers are missing him. But I rarely take long distance shots because they just waste ammo.

All that zooming is making your brain develop two sets of relative speed and motion calculations. Toggling between them is confusing your brain. that's why you can't hit anything. Try a weak without zooming, I think you will be surprised. But give it time. Your brain has to unlearn it's bipolar habits. Once it does you 'll be a killer.  

Good luck.

[Fenin]

Thanks for the quick answer, guys.

Some responses.

Try NOT zooming when you shoot.

This I have tried as well, there was a time period that I turned off my ability to zoom into the sight at all.  This brought me no end of ill-will, I simply have a hard time telling which way aircraft are going when they are so terribly small.  I zoom in more to make them bigger, which helps me orient them in space easier.  If that makes sense at all.  Of course, the answer to this is 'Shoot closer', but I tend to get too close, and either let them get a snap shot, or collide.

===

All that zooming is making your brain develop two sets of relative speed and motion calculations. Toggling between them is confusing your brain. that's why you can't hit

You have it backwards, now that I fly with my head glued to the reflector sight, I'm hitting like crazy, in comparison to how I used to hit.  I presume part of this has to do with the angle of the Hellcats gun sight in relation to the aircraft nose.  I can see over it, easily, at my point of view now.  Thus, I lead shoot, much easier.  My bipolar habit, has suddenly improved my accuracy, not the other way around.  It should be noted, I did not modify any of my other views, just the default looking forward view.

I went for awhile without using zoom at all, which I feel helped to improve my SA.

Though I know you were not implying that I have poor SA, I would like to state, that I personally believe I have decent awareness, though I know the Hellcat is, in this case, worsening that due to the huge metal wall at the back of my head.  Keeping an eye out of the cockpit is second nature to me, ever since I played Warbirds for a month in 06', I don't remember his name.  But there was always a pilot, always in a P-47, who always, always, always, bounced me.  I never, not even once, saw him coming.  I quickly learned to fly with my head on a swivel.  (Of course SA involves much more than just 'looking around' but you get the idea)

The F6f could have a little to do with it,if your used to using central mounted guns... wing mounted guns on the F6f they are spread out and only have a compact bullet stream at convergence range... increase your chance of hitting something.

This would make perfect sense to me, if the hits I were achieving were spattering hits that did little damage.  Sure, I still miss wide a lot, it's not like I'm suddenly a sniper, but now when I hit, it almost seems like I'm hitting dead on convergence, that my shots are nearly always lethal (Or, oddly enough, 9/10 times or so, oil hits, no matter what I fire at) Though, this is easily chocked up to U.S. .50 Caliber Machine Guns having a strong punch.  

I dont quite understand how your using your views.

I assumed someone might not quite understand it at first, it is very unorthodox in my experience to do what I'm doing.  At rest, pressing no buttons to adjust view at all, I have the Hellcats view pushed all the way forward, and up just a little.  This is unzoomed.  Resting as such, the point on the reflector gun sights base that would be closest to the pilot, is at the bottom of my screen.  When zoomed in, the sight practically fills my window.  I assumed of course, the change in view would limit my 'side' forward views, so I set my thumb hats forward switch to PUSH the view back to where one would normally be flying at, where you can see the entire instrument panel.

In response to Hitechs explaining of the scale system...

Ah, right, of course, zooming does very weird things to scale, but I can't see how the gun sight that I look at on my monitor would be much bigger (I would assume it would be bigger though, from just the frames I see around the cockpit) in the actual aircraft.

Thus, I'm lead to believe that the Hellcats guns would have been terribly easy to hit with.  


Pictures of the views

#1 This is the normal, unzoomed view.  What, for most people would be nearer to #2.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd287/TK420634/ahss0.jpg

#2 This is my hat switch, being pushed up.  Honestly, due to the restrictions in Aces High, I rarely have to look at my instrument panel.  Generally, I only do so for fuel, secondary weapon selection, ammo counter, and occasionally for speed.  I try to judge speed, and energy levels from outside the cockpit.  It works alright, I suppose.  But, as you can see, I don't have the sight centered, I have the view set to give me the most area visible.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd287/TK420634/ahss1.jpg

#3 This #1, but zoomed in, with the zoom toggle.  This is where I made my shots at, due to the 'increase' in plane size on my monitor.  I find this to simply be the easiest way to do it.  I still have problems with dead six shots, but I think a lot of people do, especially in converged birds.
http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd287/TK420634/ahss2.jpg

[Bizman]

In my teens, some 35 years ago, I did some archering. Not that I would have been good at it, but just like AH the hobby gave me something to do and a feeling of belonging to a group.

One thing I learned was to try to avoid "following the trigger" or something like that; online translators can't find an equivalent for the Finnish term. Anyway, in any kind of shooting it is not preferable to move the weapon at the moment the projectile is on the way out of the weapon. Don't pull the string more while releasing the arrow, don't move the firearm while pulling the trigger, don't turn the plane while firing. Trying to follow a moving target by moving the weapon while shooting is doomed to fail. Instead, try to figure out where your target would have moved during the time your bullets travel the distance of your preferred convergation, stabilize your plane, aim and shoot. If for some obscure reason - like saving his butt - he makes a swerve making you miss, just do it again. There are moments when the opponent must face the laws of physics, meaning he is bound to travel a certain distance at a certain speed to a certain direction no matter what he might want to do. That is your golden moment. Using it to your victory is another subject, but noticing where and when you would have had one is a step on the right path.

[bustr]

He's having problems resolving the con against the background and his gamma is a bit low.

Waiting to snap in and out of zoom at about the same distance each time as a rule lessens the disorientation. I shoot almost exclusivly in zoom becasue I have ghost line structures in my gunsights to aid in drop compensation and lead. If you goto zoom and make your 100Mil ring 2 inches in diameter on your screen it is equivalent to the real world diameter you would see looking at a real gunsight. If you have ever sat behind a gunsight it is a bit of a tunnel vision experience while you resolve your sight picture. One of the reasons for a wingman watching your back while you take the shot.

I use TrackIR and many times go to 100% zoom to resolve a con from the ground clutter. Shots inside of 400 are no problem on zoom. He also needs to practice his sight picture on zoom offline chasing drones to build the virtual mental memory and experience to control disorientation not miss Low G turn shots. 10-15 minutes before every game session helps for a few months when you are new to this game.

He also might make an appointment with Morfeind for a bit of gunnery help so he can talk to person. Morfeind can fill him in on tiny things like drop compensation to account for forward momentum and what he is looking at on the offline target. Aces High gunnery takes work to understand the nuances then practice to become a good shot.

The OP has made the first step on the nuances.

[Zodiac]

In my teens, some 35 years ago, I did some archering. Not that I would have been good at it, but just like AH the hobby gave me something to do and a feeling of belonging to a group.

One thing I learned was to try to avoid "following the trigger" or something like that; online translators can't find an equivalent for the Finnish term. Anyway, in any kind of shooting it is not preferable to move the weapon at the moment the projectile is on the way out of the weapon. Don't pull the string more while releasing the arrow, don't move the firearm while pulling the trigger, don't turn the plane while firing. Trying to follow a moving target by moving the weapon while shooting is doomed to fail. Instead, try to figure out where your target would have moved during the time your bullets travel the distance of your preferred convergation, stabilize your plane, aim and shoot. If for some obscure reason - like saving his butt - he makes a swerve making you miss, just do it again. There are moments when the opponent must face the laws of physics, meaning he is bound to travel a certain distance at a certain speed to a certain direction no matter what he might want to do. That is your golden moment. Using it to your victory is another subject, but noticing where and when you would have had one is a step on the right path.

What you are describing is the difference between tracking shots and ambush shooting. Tracking shots would be where you turn with your target and pull enough lead for your rounds to hit the target. Ambush shooting would be were you allow your target to literally fly into your rounds, whether you fire a long burst or a short and controlled burst. Either one can be effective and basically comes down to what you are comfortable with, except for rounds 30mm and over which require you to use ambush shots IMO.

[Bizman]

What you are describing is the difference between tracking shots and ambush shooting. Tracking shots would be where you turn with your target and pull enough lead for your rounds to hit the target. Ambush shooting would be were you allow your target to literally fly into your rounds, whether you fire a long burst or a short and controlled burst. Either one can be effective and basically comes down to what you are comfortable with, except for rounds 30mm and over which require you to use ambush shots IMO.

Now you are talking about controlled shooting in both situations. A stable shooting platform can be achieved both in a plane flying straight and in one flying a circle.

What I tried to say is not to correct aiming while pulling the trigger. Or worse, pulling the trigger so hard that you're also uncontrolled moving the stick, thus totally destroying your aiming and sometimes even causing your plane to spin.

Someone has written about his success in avoiding this kind of exaggerated triggering by changing the trigger button to the throttle (or keyboard). He claimed his accuracy rised tremendously. Worth testing if that's the problem.

[morfiend]

He's having problems resolving the con against the background and his gamma is a bit low.

Waiting to snap in and out of zoom at about the same distance each time as a rule lessens the disorientation. I shoot almost exclusivly in zoom becasue I have ghost line structures in my gunsights to aid in drop compensation and lead. If you goto zoom and make your 100Mil ring 2 inches in diameter on your screen it is equivalent to the real world diameter you would see looking at a real gunsight. If you have ever sat behind a gunsight it is a bit of a tunnel vision experience while you resolve your sight picture. One of the reasons for a wingman watching your back while you take the shot.

I use TrackIR and many times go to 100% zoom to resolve a con from the ground clutter. Shots inside of 400 are no problem on zoom. He also needs to practice his sight picture on zoom offline chasing drones to build the virtual mental memory and experience to control disorientation not miss Low G turn shots. 10-15 minutes before every game session helps for a few months when you are new to this game.

He also might make an appointment with Morfeind for a bit of gunnery help so he can talk to person. Morfeind can fill him in on tiny things like drop compensation to account for forward momentum and what he is looking at on the offline target. Aces High gunnery takes work to understand the nuances then practice to become a good shot.

The OP has made the first step on the nuances.

  Bustr,

   While I'm more than willing to help any player,shooting it not my strong suit!  I have very poor vision have resorted to a large monitor to help me see things better.   The best advice I have for any player is practice,practice and practice some more!  Take advantage of the lead calculating gunsight and develope your sight picture.

   I normally dont shoot until I'm inside 200 yards and often see D0 on distance icon,downside of this is I risk colisions.

  For a long time I played target in the TA,still do but I rarely shot at others in order to not embarass myself. Lately though I have started shooting back in hope of improvement,time to practice what I preach!

  You know the old saying,those who cant do,teach!




   

[Shuffler]

Since coke bottles are so hard to find, I have resorted to using the bottoms of empty Cuervo bottles for my views. I don't shoot any better but I have a lot more fun missing.

[bustr]

Morfiend,

You under estimate your greatest strength.

He mostly needs someone to speak to in person for about an hour. Get him to play with his gamma a smidge. Then the rest is sight picture zoomed or unzoomed. With time and practice making him more confident he will ask the gunnery questions that go hand in hand with being ready for ACM training.

I've talked to you. He will benifit from talking to you in the TA.....

[morfiend]

  Thx Bustr,

  I dont really underestimate my abilities,just wanted to be honest!  I have developed my cartoon flying to the level it is mostly because I dont shoot that great,I had to get close to hit someone.

    Teaching comes easy for me,I've taught many people different stuff over the years and I have patience.In fact I was put in charge of teaching kids in martial arts because the Master saw I had the patience to do it.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly that most players,even the vets and so called topsticks could benefit from spending alittle time with any of the trainers! Just a couple weeks ago a longtime player found out he was being late on his merges because I was able to watch him with another trainer,after about 1/2 an hour he went off to the MA and found it made a huge difference.

  Last week I found a new player who didnt have his views setup properly,didnt know about the look up modifier and had certain views mapped to compensate.After explaining to him how I setup my views andhad him adjust his,his SA went up about 75% and that was immediately!  He thanked me and went off to kill planes.

   So I guess the point of my last post was that I didnt want players to think I was a great shot of something,sure I can fly the pants off every plane in the hanger but my shooting leaves something to be desired,maybe 1 day when I grow up I'll be as good a shot as Grizz but I aint holding my breath for that to happen.