Author Topic: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?  (Read 2204 times)

Offline Rich52

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2012, 01:15:43 PM »
The 88s remind me of a pretty date who wont even kiss you. A good idea in theory but not much use other then a troop killer.
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Offline Delirium

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2012, 02:18:21 PM »
How many of us would like to try a new system?

I like the 5 inch puffy ack modeled the way it is. What I don't like is the fact the CV can get so close to shore that the 5 inch gunners can vulch with it. Also, I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.

I'd like to see 88mm more accurate, possibly by modeling the radar assistance that the Germans used towards the end of the war. It could be modeled by a lead computing site with the range included, but would be disabled if all radar was taken down at a field (this suggestion would require more than just 1 radar tower per airfield). Against low flying aircraft with a predictable flight path 88mm should be murderous, just as it would be for lower flying bombers on a steady course. I'd also triple the amount of 88mm and have the extra guns slaved to the player (i.e. each player controls 3 guns with 1 trigger pull)  I'd also put in some random wind layers so the risk/reward of flying bombers lower was present as well.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 02:19:53 PM by Delirium »
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Offline Max

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2012, 05:31:28 PM »
I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.


Agreed.

Offline Lusche

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2012, 05:33:57 PM »
I like the 5 inch puffy ack modeled the way it is. What I don't like is the fact the CV can get so close to shore that the 5 inch gunners can vulch with it.


On some maps we have bases that are being vulched by puffy ack too. Ships are at sea level, field is at 2.4k. You just got wheels up and are being targeted by puffy ack while hunting goons over the town at 600ft AGL...  :lol
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Offline R 105

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 08:58:39 AM »
 To me the 88 is very nearly worthless and turn about three times slower than it should. I have manned a US 3 inch 50 on a Coast Guard boat and the gun is set up the same way. It is like the rear tire of a kids bike, The fast you paddle the faster it goes. 

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 09:42:10 AM »
88s are a blast to man.
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 09:56:54 AM »
Puffy Ack... I may aswell type out Rule #4 and save HTC the time.
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Offline pembquist

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2012, 10:54:39 AM »
Also, I'd like to modify CV ack to make torpedo runs more of a viable solution. Right now it is close to a complete waste of time unless you drop the torpedoes so far out the ack doesn't have a chance to kill you.

as an alternative to making the cv more vulnerable I think it would be nice to have some target that torpedoes could be used on other than the fleet.
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Offline Tank-Ace

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2012, 11:15:41 AM »
Yes, it is unrealistic because if model realistically, you'd never get close a CV.

ack-ack

So whats your opinion on the auto ack, make it actually fired out of the guns, and LOS dependent, or leave it with the clearly screwed up and exploitable system being used now.
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Offline Acidrain

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2012, 02:58:46 PM »
You need to realize that a single torpedo plane or a flight of bombers would have less than a 0% chance of ever putting ord on a real WWII CV

Offline bustr

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2012, 05:10:38 PM »
What are the game functions that rely on the CV auto ack for protection to give players some chance of using that function?

1. Fighters
2. Fighter Bombers
3. PT
4. Heavly armed LVT
5. Light LVT delivering troops
6. 8 inch gun batteries.

The CV group is a single player command mobile function or movable non-capturable airfield that can come within (xxxxx) minimum yards of land or a fixed capturable base object. But, like any capturable object it has auto ack and mannable guns to defend it or attack other objects. Unlike other equivalent bases it has the most powerful auto defense guns in the game. This is due to it's vulnerability as a down side to it's massive force projection amplified by it's mobility.

What is the maximum distance from land that LVT can spawn to deliver troops?
Is this tied to auto ack protection or forcing a CV group to expose itself to destruction to capture a feild?
At what distance in WW2 did a task force sit off shore while LVT were launched?
At any time in WW2 did LVT deliver troops to a beach under attack by japanese aircraft or their fleet being attacked?

What we know historicly about the 5 inch gun:

Maximum horizontal range, with a 55 pound projectile, is 18,000 yards (16 km). <---(10 miles)
In the antiaircraft role, it had a ceiling of 37,200 feet (11,300 m) at 85 degrees elevation.
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It's obvious that game map distance scale to real life 5inch ballistic scale is mismatched in many cases to the 5inch gun's favor.

a. Change the minimum range to shore for a task group to 10.5 miles.

If this is outside of LVT auto spawn range, give the player a spawn point arrow with a minimum arch along the target base's shore for the proper spawn distance. Allow PT to deliver small groups of troops like jeeps by beaching on the shore. Change those troops max distance to map room to allow for this function.

Down sides: Smaller maps with water or maps with narrows will restrict some of the paths the Task Force object can travel. Eventualy 60 players will spawn PT to perform a mass whale beaching to swamp the local area with troops.

b. Restrict the mannable 5inch to the CV batteries and Cruiser batteries while increasing mannable 20mm and 40mm across the fleet.

Down sides: CV will die sooner if not protected by an active CAP Patrol and realy good gunners. Task Force to Task Force fights will rely on PT, Torp bombers and jabo as much as 8 inch guns. Players will hold their collective breaths until Hitech puts back the 5 inch mannable on the destroyers which will return to the original problem with fleet defence versus fighters and bombers. 

c. Change the auto ack code so it's near suicide to fly bombers near CV while making it harder to hit fighters.

Down sides: Single engined Torpedo bombers will get through along with Jabo and sink the CV sooner. Bomber pilots will riot in this forum telling Hitech they have nothing to do anymore and will quit if he dosen't change CV back to perk point milk runs again.

d. Inside of 1500 yards all 20mm-40mm auto defences make flying anything or paddeling anything near the CV group suicide.

Down sides: Furballs will change near CV groups. PT boats and Torp planes will sink more CV if there is no active CAP defence.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

CV groups have such massive irritating defence fire becasue of how we play the game. If CV's relyed on us to defend them as enthusiasticly as we try to capture the feild the CV is parked near, many of my ideas would be worth while. Maybe only changing how bombers versus fighters are being targeted by the auto ack would work in our current game environment.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2012, 06:18:24 PM »
A very good WEB Site to help understand the problems with aiming manual fuse Flak.

http://ed-thelen.org/pre_nike.html#V1_attack_defense
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Offline FireDrgn

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2012, 07:43:53 PM »
I always thought making the cv ack only target planes that up with any rockets or bombs might solve a few problems
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Offline mechanic

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2012, 10:08:57 PM »
My main thought is that 88mm manned ack seems to actualy be fun to fly against - even if you do get hit - yet the unmanned ship puffy seems to generate alot of unhappy players full stop. I have been the first to say 'Dont fly near the CV if you dont want to get hit'. I still fly by that rule. The CV is supposed to annoy you if you fly too close. I just found it interesting that the new addition of the 88s has proved once and for all that it is not dying that produces the whines, it's dying by an automated function rather than another player's good aim.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 10:11:05 PM by mechanic »
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Offline ImADot

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Re: Thoughts on puffy ack and 88mm manned?
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2012, 10:22:09 PM »
I just found it interesting that the new addition of the 88s has proved once and for all that it is not dying that produces the whines, it's dying by an automated function rather than another player's good aim.

LOL. I got whined at via PM when I killed a pony near a v-base from the 88. Apparently he thought it was BS and that because he was going 400+ in a P51 that he was somehow immune.  :rofl

Then I killed his buddy in his P51 a few minutes later, still in my 88.  :D

I still think it would be nice to have a manual-fused (or even proximity-fused) gun on the CV, which would need to be set and fired by a human to create the field of puffy. Point is...no human at the gun, no puffy.
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