HO Philosphy

[bustr]

If I have a choice about getting HO'd. I want it to be a sheep with a garter and black fishnets singing "Baby Light My Fire".

But, then this is a game and only a game.

Realism is about $1000 - $3000 per hour and the private ticket and rating to fly it at your local qualified airfeild. You can do it cheaper with a J3 or a Cessna 150. My father died in his 80's with 10k hours as a multi engine commercial instructor. I grew up flying with him. This is only a game in a computer.

Show us the rule from HTC that tells us the HO is bad, wrong, gamey, frowned upon, makes you unnaceptable in the eyes of your peers or is Stricktly Verboten and an action which HTC will respond to punitively. Other wise it is an acceptable tactic in this Cartoon game's play with no consiquences from management. Other than the "Nanny Peer Police's" attempts to define players as bad game citizens for succer punching them in the face in spite of their obvious awsum skillz and technicolor realism imaginations.

It's a canard to infer their lack of training as part of their lesser station of existance in the game contributing to poor game play.

How come with all your well honed years of practice and awsum skillz you let a lesser skilled newbie snuff you with a HO? Who needs some training here? Follow the money, who's doing the complaining about HOing?

Any newbies starting posts complaining about how easy you awsum skillz guys are dieing to their HO's?

[coombz]

Wiley I already said that if you put yourself in a position to be HO'd you've done something wrong *shrug*   I don't know what else to say on the subject.

That doesn't change the fact of what I said - this thread is full of scrub players who can't do anything but HO trying to talk themselves into it somehow being a legit move. Fine if that's all they want from the game, but the rest of us will continue to recognise them for what they are  

I usually (not always) manage to avoid them myself, unless it's a 2nd or 3rd con joining the fight that gets me head-on, and by that point I'm usually resigned to death anyway

[Krusty]

That doesn't change the fact of what I said - this thread is full of scrub players who can't do anything but HO trying to talk themselves into it somehow being a legit move.

Your comment is so flawed and openly biased that you could say with the exact same certainty that this thread is also full of scrubs who aren't skilled enough to properly HO trying to talk themselves into somehow being skilled.


I'm not saying I think that's true, but your position is flawed and myopic. That position is too narrow-minded to defend itself.

[ink]

sometimes a HO is the best option...IE a.....110 vs zero....190 vs a brew  ECT ECT

the only time they were used during the war was in situations like this(P40vsZero's)....BUT we are not fighting in a war.... we are playing a COMBAT game

HOing in AH is a 50/50.... takes no skill and if that's all you do..... you are as lame as your "tactic"

[Wiley]

chill wiley...

I never (or very rarely in a ganged situation) seen hoing those who can give me a good fight in 1v1. I think its a decent marker of who is using it.
I dont really like coombzy but i have to respect his way of thinking.

Oh I'm not uptight.  Agreed, I use it as you describe it above as well.  I just think the majority of the time, it's tactically stupid, because you're giving the red guy a shot.

I just think it's silly for people to be whining about something when the solution is within their control.

In the MA, I'm expecting the enemy to do everything in their power to kill me.  That includes, but is not limited to:

HOing
Ack dragging
Dragging me to a wirble
Ganging
Alt-monkeying
Flying a speed demon aircraft and running when it's not to their advantage
Main gunning me from a tank if I get into the tank's arc of fire
etc, etc...

To me, the game is about taking the kills I can get in spite of them doing that.  It is up to me to set myself and whoever from my side is near me up to prevail over the red guys.

If we're supposed to have a gentleman's agreement not to HO, why don't we have a gentlemen's agreement to only turn left?  It's no more of an artificial limitation than the 'no-HO' rule.  Why is there not a contingent of players who believe WEP is for skilless noobs, and shouldn't be used by an 'honorable player'?

Wiley.

[Midway]

sometimes a HO is the best option...IE a.....110 vs zero....190 vs a brew  ECT ECT

the only time they were used during the war was in situations like this(P40vsZero's)....BUT we are not fighting in a war.... we are playing a COMBAT game

HOing in AH is an 80/20 in your favor if you know what you're doing.... takes no skill and if that's all you do..... you are as lame as your "tactic"

fixed.

[Shuffler]

Your comment is so flawed and openly biased that you could say with the exact same certainty that this thread is also full of scrubs who aren't skilled enough to properly HO trying to talk themselves into somehow being skilled.

Never heard of hoing being called a skill. lol

I've always thought that any 5 year old could do just as well.

[Debrody]

To Wiley:
Exactly thats keeping me from playing. I got nothing but what you listed except those rare cases when i met a worthy one. Those moments are so much fun but there arent enough from them to counter my 15 bux.

"Gentlements agreement only to turn left"...  wrong, plainly stupid comment. For me (and a couple others) the fun is to fly on the edge of the flight model, ergo, turn, scissor, tailwhip, snaproll, go uphill at 70mph... do as complex maneuvers as possible. Hoers (also vulchers, pickers, ball-less runners etc) are playing for the exact opposition: the simplyest way to find a victim. Thats why none of them will ever be able to kill any true dogfighter in 1v1, 5v5 or any possible equal situation. There are just too many of them...  way too many.
And yet the "dirty" side wins again. My lord, where this world is headed?

[Shuffler]

To Wiley:
Exactly thats keeping me from playing. I got nothing but what you listed except those rare cases when i met a worthy one. Those moments are so much fun but there arent enough from them to counter my 15 bux.

"Gentlements agreement only to turn left"...  wrong, plainly stupid comment. For me (and a couple others) the fun is to fly on the edge of the flight model, ergo, turn, scissor, tailwhip, snaproll, go uphill at 70mph... do as complex maneuvers as possible. Hoers (also vulchers, pickers, ball-less runners etc) are playing for the exact opposition: the simplyest way to find a victim. Thats why none of them will ever be able to kill any true dogfighter in 1v1, 5v5 or any possible equal situation. There are just too many of them...  way too many.
And yet the "dirty" side wins again. My lord, where this world is headed?

I get so on the edge I catch trees

[W7LPNRICK]

HoTARDS are the same as  the coaches of of my sons' football teams who would teach that "if you don't get caught breaking the rules, you haven't broken the rules", to win at all costs. This ISN'T real life, it's a game of talent and skill, of which HoTARDS have absolutely none. In real life, they take the easy way out, bragging about their "success". They're the Mitt Romneys of the world, often bullies, ALWAYS displaying a lack of ethics.
Often narcissistic, they laud their "skills"(non-existant) and the dubious "fact" that they PWNed their opponent. HoTards are the ones that clog the chat channels with their self aggrandizement serving NO purpose in the game but to annoy those who actually have skill and talent.

WOW! Can That head get through the door? 

[Krusty]

sometimes a HO is the best option...IE a.....110 vs zero....190 vs a brew  ECT ECT

Not quite... HOs were the prescribed attack method against bombers, but were also used by 109s against P-51s, Jugs, any Soviet fighter, etc... Every plane did it, regardless of relative strength of airframe or of firepower.


It was a common attack.

[Wiley]

To Wiley:
Exactly thats keeping me from playing. I got nothing but what you listed except those rare cases when i met a worthy one. Those moments are so much fun but there arent enough from them to counter my 15 bux.

You and those few other guys like to duel, and that's great.  I just don't understand why you expect it to happen in a free for all, sides based combat arena.

"Gentlements agreement only to turn left"...  wrong, plainly stupid comment.

What is the difference?  If I fly in front of your airplane in planform, you'll take the shot and be all happy and proud of yourself about having gotten that angle.  Why does it suddenly become wrong if my nose is pointed vaguely in your direction?  It's ridiculous.

Wiley.

[Debrody]

Exactly, its ridiculous. Many of us explained why it is low, lame, pointless... yet you still cant get it. Anyway, i dont care, have fun in your level... If i want an "up-die without any advancad action", i play quake.  If you find it more satisfying than a good rolling scissors, thats a thing, not even willing to be better is an other. I got my opinion about your kind.  

Btw, i just explained the answer to your question in my previous post, i cant get it why you had to ask it again? Maybe my english is totally useless, idk...  my fault.
Here is a non-verbal answer, maybe its easyer to catch:     http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ve1ptu5opuuqyuc       i choose THIS instead of a HO. My 2 cents.

[Krusty]

Many of us explained why it is low, lame, pointless... yet you still cant get it. Anyway, i dont care, have fun in your level... If i want an "up-die without any advancad action", i play quake.  If you find it more satisfying than a good rolling scissors, thats a thing, not even willing to be better is an other. I got my opinion about your kind.

That is an extremely snobby and elitist commentary.

There's no way you can explain that a HO is "lame, pointless, low" -- because it's not. That's all your biased opinion. I can explain to you and show how rolling scissors is lame, pointless, and boring as hell (which I do believe), but if I condemn somebody else for doing it it only speaks badly about ME, not about them.

Saying that only makes us judge YOU for being biased, not judge them for the moves they choose in a fight.


If you see my point?

[EVZ]

In the real world I'm sure some ho'ing happened. I've been told that Chuck Yeager was shot down with a HO shot over Europe .... The HO was a rarely used tactic in real life.

It seems VERY FEW people in AH (the forums anyway) understand the development of air tactics and linkage between them and aircraft development. In WWI - Fighter tactics evolved the Dogfight ... Personal Combat between individual aircraft ... HOs were not unheard of, but generally opposing forces had the luxury of maneuvering for position before attacking.

After WWI aircraft development evolved the 100 mph Biplane into the 250 Mph Mono-wing Bombers, and "Pursuit" aircraft that weren't much faster (that's where the -P- prefix comes from). Given the SPEED of an attacker (before RADAR) it was postulated that INTERCEPTION would usually be impossible. Tactics evolved based on CHASING attackers and catching them before they landed. The skirmish's of the Spanish Civil War reflect these tactics.

Radar Changed EVERYTHING ... Pursuit tactics were quickly dumped and interception tactics evolved, the most advanced of which was the English BIG WING Concept. Under it DOGFIGHTING was forbidden, fighters were MASSED and operated under STRICT supervision. It was a monumental failure due to the time factor involved in assembling the required number of aircraft. Lacking any other options during the BOB, the English returned to the tactics of Dogfight and Pursuit, It was left to the Americans to devise the necessary ESCORT TACTICS that strictly forbid DOGFIGHTING and required a positioned defensive posture. This in MANY CASES dictated HOs ...

Since then Planes have gotten faster and tactics have gotten stricter, guns were actually recognised as obsolete and removed ... to be restored only as a psychological element to bolster pilots confidence. Today's fighter tactics rely on LONG RANGE HO attacks with guided missiles.

Anti HO Whiners want to dogfight, they belong in the WWI arena. Meeting the enemy head on is not always the BEST form  ... But it's ALWAYS been the MOST common. From Sticks and Stones thru Tanks and Machine Guns.