Scissors, when, where, up or down

[Klam]

Any of you guys up for letting me in on some tips and duelling practice with the 109F-4 ?
The main aspect being scissoring and low e turn/stall fighting.
GMT time

I have grown real fond of the bird over 3 tours or so. 
I like the fight and am not bothered about landing any kills I make, I would rather keep it going till I run out of gas, or get my head shot off. Not going to learn squat flying home.
The fights I enjoy are the ones that start around 10/12k and end up in the weeds.  I try and avoid Luftbery style endings and keep or try and generate enough e to use the vert.
I spend a lot of time and lives trying to bait cons onto my 6 so I can practice the scissors.  Some good/lucky results, some dreadful.
Honestly, I've still got a long way to go to get the best out of the plane, and myself.

I have seen most of the films and they are helpful but I need to fly it to understand.

Anyone who says "don't try and turn a 109" please don't post.

God Save the Queen
Happy Diamond Jubilee

<<S>>
 

Ingame - Loki

[SPKmes]

I have become fond of the 109F myself .... once you get taught some stuff I will follow you about LOKI     

[LCADolby]

Gotta love the 109F, it's a fantastic airframe.

Feel free to ask me for some duels.

[Debrody]

Hello Loki,

first of all, glad to see you willing to play for the quality engagement.

I never been flying the F too much, my ride was the G6. Simmilar in some ways, different in others, i only can talk from a very limited experience.
The flat turning ability of your aircraft is good but isnt spectecular, a little bit worse than the ki-84. The aileron rolls are poor at very low speeds. In the other hand, the snaproll ability is the best in game, the plane can fly slowly and go nose-up for a while even at 100mph. Quick direction changes are your friend, tight scissors, using the flaps and rudder as much as possible, reducing the throttle in the downhill while wepping in the uphill, doing the hammerhead-like reversal on the top. Avoid sustained moves at all cost unless your opponent is a clearly inferior turnfighter.

And duel, duel, duel... with a stick who can beat you. Dont forget to film your fights too... here is a fun one for you as some aperitif: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ve1ptu5opuuqyuc

Best luck for finding your fun.

[Big Rat]

Klam,

If you catch me in the TA not working with anyone (normally in around 9pm central time), just ask, and I'll be glad to work with ya.

 
BigRat   

[Badboy]

Hi Klam

I spend a lot of time and lives trying to bait cons onto my 6 so I can practice the scissors.

If you like to bait cons onto your six, you should be using the rolling scissors, and if the bandit is fast and diving to your six, then you will achieve good results by initiating the rolling scissors on the upward cycle. Check out this thread for details of the scissors: http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,184939.0.html

Hope that helps

Badboy

[Klam]

Thanks guys,

Mr Debrody, that film is is exactly what I'm looking for.  I watched it from both cockpits and the different views and saw that the steeper uphill part of the scissors was something I had not got in my own efforts.  Straining the last ounce out of the plane going up to the top before rolling for the reversal downward.   

Going to work on that..

Thanks again LCADolby and Big Rat for the offers to spend some time.  I will look you up.


<<S>>

[Ardy123]

Klam,
the goal is to keep in sync with the other guy, but make the height of the extensions, ie the vert-up and vert-down greater than the other guy while keeping sync, hence preserving e. This gives you 2 options...
1) work the other guy into a stall either by him trying to follow you rolls and not having the energy to do it or but finally extending vertical as far as you can and roping the other guys
2) causing him to overshoot as the other guy will not be able to keep sync...

[SuperDud]

I have grown real fond of the bird over 3 tours or so.  
I like the fight and am not bothered about landing any kills I make, I would rather keep it going till I run out of gas, or get my head shot off. Not going to learn squat flying home.

God Save the Queen
Happy Diamond Jubilee

<<S>>

I stink in german iron, but I gotta say this mind set will take you far in this game. Don't lose it. Best of luck to you.
 

[JOACH1M]

Someone say 109F?

[Debrody]

Someone say 109F?

Yups. I think it would be great if you could train Loki.

[Latrobe]

Actually doing a 109F4 tour this month. First day I just jumped right into every fight I saw regardless of how outnumbered I was. To my surprise, being very aggressive in the F4 is something that saved my butt many times. I died a TON, but thwarting the attacks from 8 different aircraft at once for 5 minutes is a win in my book. Another thing, that I knew of with the F4 but never put it into practice, was if you can get it very loose using flaps and lots of rudder you can and will out turn an A6M! Think I surprised the 3 zekes I shot down keeping my plane inside their turn. I know I surprised myself! Stupidly, I forgot to save my film afterwards  

My advise, don't be afraid to be too aggressive with your maneuvers in the F4. It's surprisingly hard to stall that plane. I know a few times I've had it flying sideways and flipping backwards at the top of my climbs, things that most other planes would be put into a flat spin, and it pulled out with ease. Not once have I felt like I was going to stall this plane yet.

[JOACH1M]

Yups. I think it would be great if you could train Loki.

 


Loki pm me ingame ill gladly give you alot of pointers on flying the 109F!

[Ruah]

the F109 is the most balanced but falls sort in speed to really be a major MA player.  Personally the G14 is the all purpose MA 109 even if I agree that the F is a pure joy.

[titanic3]

I took the 109F up today and was flopping around like a fish. Probably just me but I cannot get the gunsight to be stable like it is when flying a G6 or a K4. Took the G6 after I augered my F4 and felt totally different. Responsive controls, no weird stalls, etc etc.

As for the OP, here's my tactic during scissors. When you start it, keep your throttle at max but burn your Speed a much as you can (flaps, rudders) to force the other guy to overshoot. If that works, you got yourself a kill. If he starts chopping throttle to get behind you, let him. Once you see his plane is slower/lesser E than you are, WEP (if you haven't already) and point the nose straight up. Almost all guys will follow you up since they think you were chopping throttle as well. Naturally, you'll have more E than the other guy, and when he realizes that he can't follow you, it's usually too late. Kick rudder, drop back down, fire, done.

The trick is seeing the other guy E's state, it'll take practice, and it'll cost you some planes if you screw it up, but once you master visualizing their E state, you can pull this maneuver off and 9/10, you'll kill them.

Obviously if you're in a P40 or an EW bird and try this with a Spit16 or K4, it won't end well. Save this for planes that are the same as you or climb slower than you.