BF-109 13mm Variants

[Karnak]

Well yeah nothings perfect, There are other examples like a P-47 who had 4 cylinders shot out and made it home, one clipped a tree and made it home, would like to find the image of a 47 thats wing slashed the tail off a 109 and survived.
Then again like the P51D, one single bullet to the coolant and its engine frozen, even golith can be tamed.

Worse photo I ever seen was the B-17 that accidently dropped a 500lb bomb on another B-17s tail - http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/tail3.htm

Can't think of how the ball gunner managed to deal with that (watching it unfold), you get a small glimpse of it in Memphis Bell the movie (yeah yeah hollywood I know, but it does capture the horror).

I have a photo of a Mosquito Mk VI that collided with a U-Boat's mast while strafing the U-Boat.  The mast ripped through the nose and belly of the Mosquito tearing the quad 20mm cannon installation from the aircraft.  The Mosquito made a wheels down landing back at its base.

They did bring back the German naval ensign.

[Babalonian]

<snip> The other had 13mm cowling guns instead of 7.9mms (with more streamlined bulges than the G6) <snip>

Sounds like somebody figured out how to defy physics.  I'm wondering how that worked.

[Scherf]

I have a photo of a Mosquito Mk VI that collided with a U-Boat's mast while strafing the U-Boat.  The mast ripped through the nose and belly of the Mosquito tearing the quad 20mm cannon installation from the aircraft.  The Mosquito made a wheels down landing back at its base.

They did bring back the German naval ensign.

Is that a photo you can scan / post Karnak? I bought a copy of Aeroplane / Flypast / whatever when they published the pic some years back, left in the aircraft on the next flight...

[gyrene81]

Funny how it only takes 50 rounds of 50 cal to shoot down a P-47

i take it you never had the pleasure of firing a ma deuce. if you can get 50 rounds on target, things come apart.

2:45 in gives a fairly decent demonstration of the power...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJuj1PSZLnE&feature=related

[Karnak]

Is that a photo you can scan / post Karnak? I bought a copy of Aeroplane / Flypast / whatever when they published the pic some years back, left in the aircraft on the next flight...

I don't have a way to do so right now, Scherf.  I'll see what I can manage.

[Krusty]

I'd love to have these gun options.  

It was a 1-off construction in each case, most likely taking many hours at the depot level (after it left the factories). They weren't really mounted in the same place as the 13mms on later models.

But still... It was Galland... Who would say no?

Here's his 13mm cowling setup. Note the linkage/shell ejection ports each side? Also the bulges.





His second plane was also a basic F-2 with modifications. That would have the MG151/15 hub gun, some replaced that with MG/FFm to try to bolster firepower. I'm not sure which hub guns he used.

You can see it in the upper right corner of this image, and see a line drawing of the wing cannons in the bottom left corner:

[Motherland]

As I recall, Galland shot his propeller of with those 13mm.
Thus the lack of production until the G6.

[Krusty]

Synchronization issues might also be why he had one with 7mms, and also why the Fw190 took so long to get them in the cowling as well.

[Raphael]

the F2 with the 15mm cannons could be interesting

[Krusty]

Interesting, perhaps. Effective? Less so than you might think. You ever try flying the I-16 with 2x7mm and 1x12.7mm?

Think of it as maybe as strong as that. I've never gotten a kill with the I16 in that setup. I tried a few times but it never happened.


So yes, interesting in the same way the 109E-1 would be interesting (4x7mm). Might be fun to challenge one's self (like taking no cannons on a C205), but overall pretty weak weaponry.


EDIT: I think the 109F-2 is more interesting because I've learned a while back about the performance differences between the E-7, F-2, and the F-4. It wasn't quite as fast. Might make more interesting scenario match-ups as well.

[Raphael]

no no, I'm not talking about an uber killing machine, when I said interesting I meant interesting. like when I say the Emil is cool I mean the Emil is cool!

[Denniss]

So yes, interesting in the same way the 109E-1 would be interesting (4x7mm).

EDIT: I think the 109F-2 is more interesting because I've learned a while back about the performance differences between the E-7, F-2, and the F-4. It wasn't quite as fast. Might make more interesting scenario match-ups as well.

1) 4x 7.92 mm makes rounded 8mm, not 7mm.
2) about 45 km/h between E-7 and F-2 as well as F-2 and F-4. (E-7 with standard A-1 engine, F-4 with fully rated E engine).

[Butcher]

My only problem is adding the F-2 separate then F-4, It's like taking up a C.202 to prove a point rather then C.205.

[USCH]

You should think it was a little bit tougher then a handful of 50 cal rounds to bring it down.

50 rounds a hand full? you got's some big hands!

[Motherland]

Well yeah nothings perfect, There are other examples like a P-47 who had 4 cylinders shot out and made it home, one clipped a tree and made it home, would like to find the image of a 47 thats wing slashed the tail off a 109 and survived.
Then again like the P51D, one single bullet to the coolant and its engine frozen, even golith can be tamed.

Worse photo I ever seen was the B-17 that accidently dropped a 500lb bomb on another B-17s tail - http://www.daveswarbirds.com/b-17/tail3.htm

Can't think of how the ball gunner managed to deal with that (watching it unfold), you get a small glimpse of it in Memphis Bell the movie (yeah yeah hollywood I know, but it does capture the horror).

Those stories have been passed down because they're exceptions. For every 1 P47 that received amazing amounts of damage and brought their pilot home safely, 100 more blew into little pieces after a short burst of 20mm fire.