1972 VW

[icepac]

Umm.. no. The drifters choice would be a Mazda Miyata instead of a buggy 100 times out of 100

If you're talking about general driving like Porsche, at winter it's pretty horrible due to understeer. On the track the same thing if it has power, it will understeer on throttle. Other than the understeer behaviour they can be nice drivers, yes.

The drifter's choice would be a 240sx instead of a mazda miata 100 times out of 100.

I've driven plenty of 911s and 930s in the snow and had zero understeer issues.

The rear engine porsche or bug will also be able to move about long after a front engine rear drive loses the ability to move forward.

That said, my 914/6-gt is probably the best cornering car I have ever driven and pulled 1.0g on summit point's pad with 5 year old yokahama A001s.

[morfiend]

I don't fully agree with you. A mid engined car like Honda S2000 or a Ferrari is definately the drivers choice.

I have been contemplating about getting a Porsche 911 as a daily driver myself. But I'm worried about the winter behaviour, I don't want to end up sliding out of the road when the nose hits the first slush or snow buildup in the center lane. The new models do have the PSM but I have no personal experience how well it works in practise.

  Ripley,

   Just get an all wheel drive model!   I've driven with studded tire also,they are no longer legal here but thats another story!  I agree they make a huge difference and very likely make it difficult to get the backend to hangout.

 I've also driven afew porsches and didnt find them difficult to drive and drive fast! the biggest problems happen when the driver scares themselves and take their foot off the gas,that when bad things happen!

  1 last thing,even thought the S2000 has a 50/50 weight ratio I wouldnt call it a midengine car anymore that I'd call a bimmer a mid. Fiat X19 or a MR2 are what I think of as midengine,ya throw in the lambos and prancing horses too but they are not practical cars.


   

[The Fugitive]

And you had regular summer tires right? No traction whatsoever. In those conditions you might make the bug slide but it will be about 100x more difficult than in a regular front engine car like the Mazda Miyata. The second option is of course that your bug has more horsepower than the regular model, then it can break the rear wheel traction before the car starts to understeer.

It might be difficult to understand for someone who has no experience in winter driving with spiked tires. When you start to accelerate or break, the studs in the tires extend out from the tire. Normally they're partially hidden inside the rubber to prevent road wear and noise. So when you press gas in a beetle at winter, following things will happen:

The engine revs up. The vehicle will start to accelerate moderately. The weight of the vehicle shifts to the back axle even more than it already is. The studs in the rear wheels extend to give more traction. The reverse of that happens in the front which gets lighter and the studs retract even more. Combined with the lesser friction multiplier due to lower front weight the result is a heavy understeer behaviour.

Fundamentally speaking a rear engined car is one the worst possible choices for drifting. Only thing worse would be fwd or a four wheel drive with a rear engine

LOL!!! studded tires! Only rich people had studded tires! They are only legal for a few months of the year around here and it costs to much to have extra tires/rims around to swap back and forth. Also as an "invincible" teen young adult we didn't need any stinkin studs in our tires. You learned to drive in snow with radias, or maybe a snow tire, but NEVER studs! It took all the fun out of driving in snow!

[PR3D4TOR]

Why would studded tires be illegal?

[Seanaldinho]

Why would studded tires be illegal?

To rough on the roads/parking lots would be my guess.

I live in florida... the last time it snowed here it lasted 30 minutes and melted when it hit the ground... and it was in april.

[morfiend]

Why would studded tires be illegal?

 Good question! basically it boils down to road damage. Sometime in the late 70's I think 78 they made them illegal to use in Ontario.Pryor to that they were common because most cars were front engine rear drive and what you'd call a land yacht so even with winter tires you didnt have enough traction.

  Then radial tires came on scene and cars got smaller and front drive became common and studs went away.  Personally I think it should be law that you use winter tires and studs on all 4 wheels,as Ripley has said they even have retractable studs today so there is little reason not to have them except maybe some numpties would drive too fast because they have anitlocks and studs....

  

[The Fugitive]

Good question! basically it boils down to road damage. Sometime in the late 70's I think 78 they made them illegal to use in Ontario.Pryor to that they were common because most cars were front engine rear drive and what you'd call a land yacht so even with winter tires you didnt have enough traction.

  Then radial tires came on scene and cars got smaller and front drive became common and studs went away.  Personally I think it should be law that you use winter tires and studs on all 4 wheels,as Ripley has said they even have retractable studs today so there is little reason not to have them except maybe some numpties would drive too fast because they have anitlocks and studs....

  

exactly. What I love is watchin the idiots with 4 wheel drive run around in the winter. They may "go" better in snow, but they don't "stop" all that much better. 

[klingan]

Really fun to drive   

[Seanaldinho]

Update

The finished motor almost ready to be thrown in. Fired it up for the first time today and boy did it sound gewd!




EDIT: First time the picture came out all funny.

[MiloMorai]

To rough on the roads/parking lots would be my guess.

I live in florida... the last time it snowed here it lasted 30 minutes and melted when it hit the ground... and it was in april.

Yup they made 'wagon tracks' in the road. Also, they sometimes came out when someone was spinning their tires. Some people got hurt from the flying studs.

[GScholz]

We still use studded tires over here. Yeah they do damage to the road surface so they're only allowed in the winter months.


This...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp2sqrfGSPI

... wouldn't happen with studded tires.

[eagl]

EDIT: First time the picture came out all funny.

The little red X looks fine in this one.

 

edit:  Pic seems to be working now.

[Masherbrum]

Back engined cars will not drift even on snow. When you try to make it slide, pressing gas will only cause understeer because throttling up will make the nose even lighter. Maybe with summer tires it may slide who knows - but it will slide about as well as a hammer on ice - the back heaviness will make it pretty much impossible to control.

Correct, especially in the case of a VW Beetle.  

[Masherbrum]

(Image removed from quote.)

Really fun to drive   

I like the clean lines of that one.    I really dig the front chrome, in place of a typical bumper.    Nice ride Klingan! 

[GScholz]

Correct, especially in the case of a VW Beetle.  

Maybe you just need to learn how...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTbzFG1MOcY