East front scenarios

[33Vortex]

Now I did not participate in the frame yesterday (all my stuff is in storage in between moving) but reading about the engagement altitudes reminded me of what I read in the biography of Günther Rall (which he named; My Logbook). I do not have the book in front of me (again storage) so can not give you page number or other reference but this is what I recall.

According to Rall, the typical engagement altitude on the east front was anywhere between ground level and up to about 6k AGL, he did not recall any engagement above that altitude unless it concerned chasing recon flights. This I guess is a reflection of how air assets were used on the east front by both sides, in direct support of ground operations. This was their primary role and virtually no strategic bombing ever took place in the east, terror bombing of cities sure but not targeting industries or other strategic assets.

Anyhow, I was thinking about this since in AH we tend to carry the same typical flying pattern (behavior) from the MA into FSO, and in this case from west front scenarios into east front scenarios. Perhaps a aspect worthy some consideration if scenario designers want to create a FSO experience more representative of how air combat operations were conducted on the east front? To create a more historically oriented experience, I would consider putting a ceiling of maybe 6-8k on all aircraft, recon flights excempt from this rule, until contact with the enemy is made.

 

[Nefarious]

Great post and I do agree that combat alts were much lower in than any front in the war. I'm not going to argue why the fights were so low in the East but I will state why I don't use Alt Caps.

I have never been a fan of alt caps, but have used them in some cases. The biggest reason to me is that it is unenforceable. Most Alt Caps in FSO and other events are enforced by Severe Wind at XXX altitude. Dropping an impenetrable wind layer at 8K is a bad idea. It would have to be lifted at the first report at engagement and that could lead to "It wasn't lifted fast enough reports" and everyone would climb as soon as it was lifted all over the map.

Most if not all squads would respect an imaginary cap, but there would be some pilots not respecting it and then you got reports and emails and messages saying so and so was breaking the rules.

In the end, the CICs make the last set of rules for the individual squads. They (usually) tell the squads how and what to do. If they want to make a historical low level attack with IL-2s, they will. If they want to send Bostons or Ju88s in at 20K, they will. As a CM, I don't like getting into the operational level of the CIC, it's their fight and I let them choose how they want to handle it.

[Big Rat]

33Vortex,  I like you would like to see this, but I have to agree with Nefarious.  Almost impossible to enforce once combat starts.  Even if we started at 3k, a couple of verticle moves and we can be up against a 6k wind layer.  Especially the way I teach my guys to normally fight.   I was thinking while I was typing this, that if we had thick clouds from about 6k to 12k or so and then clearing up to whatever(20k). This would force the fights down, since the Buffs couldn't get sighted on target unless below 6k, and therefore that's where the fights would be. This also would effect the air combat as much if you happen to get into the bottom of the clouds. Of course even this can be used to shield the buffs in the clouds until just before target, (flying at 6500ft), and dropping 500 ft just before target.   I know that thought has been brought up by others before, but just some thoughts on the subject.

 
BigRat

[Viper61]

Although the FSO maybe historically inaccurate in some cases like the altitudes were fighting at in Frame 01.  I would state that it brings in a whole new set of problems and issues for the CIC and Squad CO's to plan for and fight against.  Protecting airspace only up to 6 or even 10K is far easier than protecting airspace up to 30K.  Allowing a CIC to take advantage of the increased speeds found at higher alt's allows for more miles to be covered before the H+60 bell rings, less fuel to be used, thus longer flight routes to get around a targets defenses.  Then the defenders counter operations to the criteria.

Also if you look at how the designers set up the frames and targets they can also manipulate the altitudes in which AC fight at anyway.  When you see targets spread way apart from the opposing sides lifting fields, then the fights will be a low altitudes because the planes don't have time to climb when combined with the H+60 rule.  Thus forcing a low or mid level engagement.  The BOB map and set up is a great example of this.

And not to mention we all enjoy watching a squad that took 30 minutes to climb into the stratosphere, figure out they are in the wrong battle space and then take about 3 minutes to come down into the fight at low level that you started.  Lawn Darts are always fun to watch 

I think the FSO given it is a game and meant to allow both sides an equal chance to win each engagement and most importantly to allow large formation engagements for the enjoyment of all is great just as is.  Don't mess with success!

[33Vortex]

The bottom line is that it should be fun, thing is that to some the historical aspect of it is embedded in the fun. I'm glad the combat alts have been considered and must say that I know the game mechanics well enough to know it would be very difficult to enforce. In the virtual environment we enjoy so much, a 10 or 12k ceiling would probably be realistic enough but the difficulty in enforcing the rule would remain.

I just wanted to bring this to the attention of the CMs and am glad it has already been thought of. I believe the current state of the game prevents any effective way of implementing this, by encouragement or enforcement.