A slight change to flaps autoretracting on the P38......

[Hazard69]

DISCLAIMER: This is not a request to get rid of auto retract. While not very realistic, I do understand that it does serve its purpose for simplifying HTC's job, and them not having to open a whole new can of worms (namely overspeed damage  ). Plus it is the same way across the board, so its an even playing field and should NOT be removed.

I'm sure we've all had moments when flaps managed to autoretract at a 'potentially bad time' and lost us a fight. I seem to have had my fair share of moments, specifically since Ive been flying the P38.

For the benefit of those unfamiliar to the 38, its got 3 notches of combat flaps, which are of immense importance to utilising the 38 properly in a knife fight. The last two notches needn't concern our discussion here.

Firstly, all 3 notches have the same Vmo limit, which I find strange.
Would appreciate it if someone could enlighten me why they share the same Vmo. Granted they are fowlers, but todays jets use fowlers too and theres a significant difference in Vmo for each notch up,1,5 etc.
Anyways, that's irrelevant, moving onto the topic at hand.

From personal testing, I gather that the flaps start autoretracting (from notch 3) at 270mph. Fairly high up, I admit, but they are combat flaps.

Again from my tests, its apparent that theres no way the flaps will autoretract from notch 3 to notch2 or notch1 and stop. They always go full up, EVEN IF THE OVERSPEED CONDITION HAS CEASED TO EXIST AS THEY APPROACH NOTCH2 OR NOTCH1
In my tests, I had dropped from 270 to 180 mph, as the flaps crossed notch1 and they still retracted to full up.

This is particularly nasty in situations where on the downwad part of the loop (insert any other appropriate ACM nomenclature here) you just manage to exceed Vmo of 270mph for a sec, and then on your way up, even when below 270mph, the flaps keep retracting.

So my wishlist to HTC is:
TO ALTER THE WAY AUTORETRACT WORKS, BY CHECKING FOR AN OVERSPEED CONDITION EXISTING AT EACH NOTCH AND RETRACTING TO THE NEXT NOTCH, WHERE A SECOND CHECK FOR OVERSPEED WOULD BE PERFORMED. 


You may flame when ready, Quigley! 

[The Fugitive]

I fly the 38 a lot and personally I have only had the auto retract flaps engage a few times that I can remember. I'm on and off the flaps quickly. Never leaving them out longer than I need to. Perhaps your leaving them out too long? I know AKAK hates them but that is because they are unrealistic, not because they become much of a problem.

[Karnak]

Seems like a reasonable request to have the game check the speed after stage 3 has been retracted before proceeding to retract stage 2 and then check after stage 2 has been retracted before proceeding to stage 1.

N1K2-J and Ki-84 fowler flaps, though having lower speed thresholds, could probably use the same, but as it would likely be a global change to how flaps are retracted they'd get it too.

[SilverZ06]

your leaving them out too long

Fug pointed out your problem right there^

[icepac]

I would rejoice if my chosen mount had flaps that stayed out to 270.......or even above 160.

[mbailey]

   
 

Love your Sig Hazard 

[colmbo]

-1

While I understand your request it just adds to the silliness of auto-retract in the first place.  What you are asking for, in part, is an auto-flap system to control flaps for you.

There SHOULD be damage to the flaps if overspeeded a significant amount therefore there SHOULD be some kind of penalty for doing so ---- full retraction in this case.

[Ack-Ack]

The P-38 flaps start auto-retracting (stage 3) at 250mph, not 270mph.

ack-ack

[guncrasher]

yeah i think we should get rid of the auto retract thing.  it should be like when you put the nose down and pulled the stick hard, wings will fall.

I hate it when they auto retract just as I need them.  but i guess I am not paying enough attention to the speed either.


semp

[Karnak]

yeah i think we should get rid of the auto retract thing.  it should be like when you put the nose down and pulled the stick hard, wings will fall.

I hate it when they auto retract just as I need them.  but i guess I am not paying enough attention to the speed either.


semp

You'd prefer they tore off just when you needed them?  Per HiTech, that is the alternative.

[Raptor05121]

You'd prefer they tore off just when you needed them?  Per HiTech, that is the alternative.

I +1 this idea. If noobs forget to retract the flaps, break them off and make them suffer the drag penalty.

[guncrasher]

You'd prefer they tore off just when you needed them?  Per HiTech, that is the alternative.

yes, that is exactly what I want.  after all we do rip our wings off when we arent carefull pulling g's.


semp

[colmbo]

You'd prefer they tore off just when you needed them?  Per HiTech, that is the alternative.

On the B-24 if flap speed (155 mph) is exceeded the flaps will "blow up" to protect the structure.  However when they are forced to retract there will be damage to the flap hydraulic system.

If we're going to have auto-retract the flaps should then stay retraced for the remainder of the flight.

[Hazard69]

There SHOULD be damage to the flaps if overspeeded a significant amount therefore there SHOULD be some kind of penalty for doing so ---- full retraction in this case.

And that I believe is the can of worms HTC is trying to avoid. Seeing as how most operating speed limits mentions in FCOMs tend to be well under the actual design limits. Then theres the question of structural integrity, would a undamaged flap tear off in overspeeding for only a second? Would a damaged one hang in for two seconds? Don't even get me started on the reverse flap damage built into the game (it simulates a flap jam, rather than a flap being destroyed or punched full of holes).  

Perhaps your leaving them out too long?

I completely agree, my flying skills are far from legendary (some may say far from good too  ). But regardless, to have them retract to 0, even when u are below the ops limit and be powerless to extend/stop them again until they reach 0 is a bit of a pain. I guess, an alternative is to have them retract to 0 instantly? So as to not have a time delay in when u can again extand them?

What you are asking for, in part, is an auto-flap system to control flaps for you.

Nope what I'm asking for is merely that the autoretract system keep doing what it was intended to do, and only do it when it actually is required to.

The P-38 flaps start auto-retracting (stage 3) at 250mph, not 270mph.

All hail the mighty fork tailed devil! 
Im sure you are correct. I guess I was just looking at the wrong indicator in E6B (maybe TAS instead of the IAS).

[hitech]

There is nothing in the code that raises flaps to full when the max speed is reached.  The code simply keeps raising until the max speed for the setting is above the current speed.

The p38's manual lists the speeds only for full and 1/2.

We will take a look if to see if we think it warrants a change  to the 1 & 2nd flaps settings.

HiTech