109 vs. Dive Speed

[Ruah]

Yah, titan is right, you ignore them.  If they are 5k below you and you want to jump them, follow them while using throttle to position yourself, they will turn below you and you position yourself in a low e state (because for a 109 and especially a K4, you don't don't want excess e if you have alt) and do your roll over with little or no throttle, saddle/shoot and then gently throttle up for the zoom for a quick high yoyo/barrel roll to keep the pressure on.  

Personally I prefer to get under them and take the shot on the up since if they break with a split S, you can hammer it easily and then it is a saddle for you, likewise if they go up or break to the side, you have the extra e to manage throttle and have gravity working against you.  Personally I like the 109 in the vert going up more then in the dive and like the merge, will always try to get under (but more e) then the opponent.  This is the exact opposite with in the 190 where i prefer coming down on someone.

Ultimately speaking, the 109 is not a good BnZer really, for the aforementioned reasons and because it lacks the snapshot firepower.  Yes yes the tater is a one shot kill, but it is best shot from very close ranges with high profiles - and these kinds of situations are usually in the up hill pert of a vert fight.  In the down, you just don't have time to really be accurate - whereas the 190 can put out a fair bit of ammo and start shooting further out.  So i suppose the crux is: if you want to keep with the BnZ style of fighting, I recommend a different plane that is more suited.  Mind you anyone can BnZ in any plane - but some are more suited to the task, and like the KI84, I prefer to start with an alt disadvantage in the K4 because it gives the opponent the initiative and me the reversal. 

As for diving, just don't go full throttle downhill. . .109s need a fair bit of throttle adjustment, and one of the first things you learn is that unless you know it is going to be a very short dive to get E for a quick climb, keep the throttle down.  Hell the K4 will compress in level flight at full throttle!

[save]

more reading about 109 dive speeds and behaviour :

Through the eyes of the enemy - possibly Me 109 G:
"My flight chased 12 109s south of Vienna. They climbed and we followed, unable to close on them. At 38,000 feet I fired a long burst at one of them from at least a 1000 yards, and saw some strikes. It rolled over and dived and I followed but soon reached compressibility with severe buffeting of the tail and loss of elevator control. I slowed my plane and regained control, but the 109 got away.
On two other occasions ME 109s got away from me because the P 51d could not stay with them in a high-speed dive. At 525-550 mph the plane would start to porpoise uncontrollably and had to be slowed to regain control. The P 51 was redlined at 505 mph, meaning that this speed should not be exceeded. But when chasing 109s or 190s in a dive from 25-26,000 it often was exceeded, if you wanted to keep up with those enemy planes. The P 51b, and c, could stay with those planes in a dive. The P 51d had a thicker wing and a bubble canopy which changed the airflow and brought on compressibility at lower speeds."
- Robert C.Curtis, American P-51 pilot.


more on the 109 in link below.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

[MiloMorai]

Curtis just ruined some of his credibility. The P-51D didn't have thicker wings than the P-51B/C.

[PR3D4TOR]

There were wing alterations between the B and D models, and a greater wing thickness became a commonly held myth as to why the P-51 dived poorly compared to P-38s and P-47s.

[save]

Does AH 51D dive worse than the B model ?

Could 109 get away from a P51D in AH described in pilots interviews ?


Why can't AH 109 use its Flettner at speed described in one of the interviews ?

[morfiend]

Does AH 51D dive worse than the B model ?

Could 109 get away from a P51D in AH described in pilots interviews ?


Why can't AH 109 use its Flettner at speed described in one of the interviews ?

 The flettner IIRC is in the tail and the way it's trimmed. The 109 had a "flying tail" as in the whole horizontal surface was moved,AH models this quite nicely with the pitch trim.


   

[PR3D4TOR]

Late G-models and Ks had flettner tabs, though not all units received them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servo_tab

They're not modeled in AH i think.

[GScholz]

The tail of G-10/R2 (W.Nr. 770269) with the flettner tab clearly visible on the rudder.



To my knowledge the G-6/AS was the first to use flettner tabs.

[MiloMorai]

Why can't AH 109 use its Flettner at speed described in one of the interviews ?

Are you thinking the Flettner is pilot adjustable in flight? It is not. It is set on the ground.

PR3D4TOR, it doesn't matter if the Flettner is modeled or not.

[Krusty]

In this game even the K-4 has a hard time operating over 30k (and I mean just over 30K). Forget about pulling away and outclimbing P-51s at 38K!

In this game, 109s are the underdogs in scenarios and FSOs when matched against US planes that operate with impunity up to 40k.

[PR3D4TOR]

PR3D4TOR, it doesn't matter if the Flettner is modeled or not.

Why? It would mean that late mark 109's like the G-14 and K-4 would have better rudder authority at high speed than the earlier 109s.

[Ardy123]

In this game even the K-4 has a hard time operating over 30k (and I mean just over 30K). Forget about pulling away and outclimbing P-51s at 38K!

In this game, 109s are the underdogs in scenarios and FSOs when matched against US planes that operate with impunity up to 40k.

Does this have to do with the fact that non of AH 109s have the high alt boosts?

[Krusty]

The K-4 does have the high alt boost.

predator, I don't think so. In fact I've read most that even HAD flettner tabs (and it was few and far between) had them fixed into place and they never worked. They were just a part of the rudder.

[PR3D4TOR]

No, those were the aileron flettners mounted on WNF produced 109Gs and Ks (about 8,000 of the total 34,000 bf 109 production). At very high speed they could create control-force reversal, which was very dangerous, so many pilots had them deactivated. The rudder flettners were mounted on all tall-tail 109s (about mid-1944 onward) and worked as they should.

[Krusty]

No, I'm specifically thinking of the rudder when I say that.