Author Topic: Recycled Vehicle list.  (Read 427 times)

Offline Zexx

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Recycled Vehicle list.
« on: June 14, 2012, 01:53:54 PM »
Okay here is my Vehicle Wishlist. Two of these vehicles have been requested before and the other one is a variant of the M3 Half-track Family of vehicles. This list is:

The M7 "Priest" Mobile Artillery Piece.
 Its a 105mm Howitzer. According to Wikipedia and a couple other sources: A total of 3,490 M7s were built and they proved to be reliable weapons, continuing to see service in the U.S. and allied armies well past World War II. Could also add the "defrocked Priest" as both Britain and Canada used them as Armored Personnel Carriers. Last time this Vehicle was mentioned was 7 years ago in the wishlist forum.

Sd.kfz 234/2 "Puma".

German equivalent to the M-8 Greyhound (in some ways it's superior).
There were four main variants.

    234/1 - 1 x 2 cm KwK 30 L/55 autocannon, 1 x MG34 Machinegun. This design featured an open-topped turret. Around 200 were produced.

    234/2 "Puma" - 1 x 5 cm KwK 39 L/60, 1 x MG34. Employed a fully enclosed turret originally designed for the VK1602 Leopard light tank. The turret front was protected by 30 mm armor set at an angle of 20° from the vertical. The sides and rear had 10 mm armor set at 25°, and the top plate was 10 mm armor. The gun mantlet was rounded and was 40 to 100 mm thick. 101 were produced between September 1943 and September 1944.

    234/3 - 1 x 7.5 cm K51 L/24 in open-topped superstructure replacing the turret. 88 built between June and December, 1944.

    234/4 "Pakwagen" - 1 x 7.5 cm PaK 40 L/48 in open-topped superstructure replacing the turret. 89 built between December 1944 and March 1945.
(Sdkfz 234, Wikipedia.org)

and finally the M3/M16 Variant ADA (AAA/AW:SP) platform:

T28E1 CGMC - M3 based Combination Gun Motor Carriage equipped with one M1A2 37mm autocannon (240 rounds) flanked by 2 M2WC machine guns (3,400 rounds). The original T28 had been based on the shorter M2 Half-Track Car chassis.

        M15 CGMC - T28E1 variant, equipped with an armored superstructure on the turreted mount to provide crew protection, and switched to M2HB machine guns.
        M15A1 CGMC - Reorganization of the weapons, with the M2HB machine guns being fitted under the M1A2 37 mm auto-cannon instead of above as on the M15.

I know Aces is primarily a World War II Flight simulation game, but there are those of us who enjoy the Ground War aspect as well, and I think these vehicles would be a welcomed addition to the game including adding a new aspect of "base capture".
Yes there is a Huge learning curve in flying. It starts on Take off and ends on the glide slope for landing. In short The grade arc is the difference you take between being in the sky or in a mountainside.

Offline VansCrew1

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Re: Recycled Vehicle list.
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2012, 11:13:54 PM »
what's the point of it? I mean it is long range artillery.... yes it has range but what stops someone in a tiger for example to sit on a hill over looking the town and shooting 32+ out with HE and killing a town that way... the priest has a bigger round but an open top so knocking out the gun would be easy. The puma on the other hand would be a good idea imo, but it was more of a prototype then a full service vehical. I'm not an expert on that but If only a few hundred were made that's telling you something. And them M3/m16 variant is kinda pointless I feel we have the m16 and other AAA why waist time doing that when they could be making the panzer III or something.

*just my 2 cents*
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Offline matt

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Re: Recycled Vehicle list.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 12:16:37 AM »
+1

Offline Zexx

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Re: Recycled Vehicle list.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 10:22:01 AM »
what's the point of it? I mean it is long range artillery.... yes it has range but what stops someone in a tiger for example to sit on a hill over looking the town and shooting 32+ out with HE and killing a town that way... the priest has a bigger round but an open top so knocking out the gun would be easy. The puma on the other hand would be a good idea imo, but it was more of a prototype then a full service vehical. I'm not an expert on that but If only a few hundred were made that's telling you something. And them M3/m16 variant is kinda pointless I feel we have the m16 and other AAA why waist time doing that when they could be making the panzer III or something.

*just my 2 cents*
<S>
Vanscrew

Vanscrew, as for The Priest not being added I could understand Why, but given the limited presence of Shore Batteries and the capability of Cruisers to facilitate fire support it does seem reasonable to add that dimension to the Ground Vehicle list and enable that vehicle to be apart of the rolling G.V. battles and Base assaults. It also must be noted that the M18 Tank destroyer was mostly open topped, but it get almost wide use on AH ground battles. So, Its an Acceptable risk I'd assume. There's also the M3 Variant Tank Destroyer with its 75mm gun (which could double as Artillery support by limited indirect fire) Again open open topped and thin armor by comparison.

As for the Puma: It was Service operational as a Armored Recon platform withe Panzer Forces that's why it existed in such low numbers.
"According to Jentz, the 101 units of the 234/2 produced were distributed as follows:

-Panzer Lehr Div. (1 Kompanie/PzAufkAbt 130): 25 units. Painted in dark yellow and without numerals or crosses.

- 2 PzDiv (1.Kompanie/PzAufkAbt 2): 25 units. Some of its vehicles seem painted dark yellow without any marking (not even license plates) but a small trident and the Aufklärungs insignia, both on the front of the hull, at the left. Others, like the well knwon 111 carried 3 tone camo, crosses and numerals.

- 1 SSPzDiv (SSPzAufkAbt 1): 16 units. painted in dark yellow with camo, probably 3 tone. They also carried crosses and numerals (3 digits)

- 20 PzDiv ( PzAufkAbt 20): 16 units. There is a photo of a Puma white washed, in Silesia.

- 7 PzDiv (1Kompanie/ PzAufkAbt 7): 6 units"

(http://www.panzernot.net/wp-content/uploads/Puma/234-PumaEng.htm,2012)

By comparison the allied M-8 "Grey Hound" existed in low numbers in the same capacity

"The M8 was used in the European theaters of operation primarily for escort and reconnaissance roles. It was not unusual to see M8's being used in infantry assaults on European cities but rarely in armored attacks since many tanks were available. The M8 armored car served in the Far East and was more useful in that most of the Japanese armor was vulnerable to the 37 mm cannon. After the war, M8 armored cars acted as patrol vehicles in the occupation forces of Japan. "(http://www.robertsarmory.com/m8.htm,1995, accessed 2012)

In either Case I'd like to see the Puma as a choice to the Greyhound, and to add just little more depth the the wheeled vehicle list. As  for the variant of the M3/M16 I'd like to see it added as a choice for the M16 GMMC not as a stand alone vehicle.  Yeah it would be a slight remodel of the M-16, but honestly this one doesn't rate that high on my wishlist as the current one is good enough I think.

The ground battle shapes up roughly like this. Calvary/Recon units screen (mask) the larger units (brigade and higher) maneuver while performing "movement to contact". It essentially performs the Recon role  and establishes contact with threat forces until other elements of the brigade or division can be brought to bear.  It works much the same way as a Combat Air Patrol does, just from the ground instead of the Air. Actually the Operations are a little more involved than this, but this would be the basis for adding at least the Sd.Kfz 234 "Puma" both as a scout and even a Forward observer (which is what the "Storch" provides as well).

I could let go of the Priest if if more variants of the M3 are provided such as the following:

"T19 105 mm HMC - M3 based Howitzer Motor Carriage equipped with the M2A1 105 mm howitzer (8 rounds)." (article M3 Half Track, Wikipedia.org, 2011, accessed 15 June 2012.) I think that would be a fair trade....
Yes there is a Huge learning curve in flying. It starts on Take off and ends on the glide slope for landing. In short The grade arc is the difference you take between being in the sky or in a mountainside.

Offline Butcher

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Re: Recycled Vehicle list.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 11:09:55 AM »
Very good list - All vehicles listed were in combat and in numbers - might not be compared to production of a T34 or Sherman tank, but enough were produce to easily fit the bill.

I've been asking for a Puma for a year now, I know Tull in the 367th Dynamite Gang would never drive anything else, he loves his beloved M-8 but I know he'd never switch if the Puma came out.

Decent gun and fast, although its not armored its strictly a recon car, however its 50mm L/60 gun packs quite a punch, I know the  British had the AEC Armored car, MkII version had a Mk II: QF 6 pounder top speed was around 36-40mph. Early versions of the AEC Armored car fought in North Africa while later versions with the 6lb gun roamed europe after D-Day.

Of course on a funny note the M-8s gun is quite capable of destroying a Puma, while its little use against any real tank, the Puma can punch through most tanks from the side/rear (most tanks...excluding heavy tanks) - it was not used as a Tank destroyer by any means it simply had a decent gun that could penetrate as needed.
JG 52