.50 cal ammo

[WING47]

WING47,

If the .50 is increased, as you suggest, the 20mm Hispano would also need to be increased per the US Navy's documentation.

Also, I don't see a lot of gun camera films from US fighters where a couple hits blow wings off.

I did see one, I'm not saying that it happened all the time, it could happen, I don't want to get complicated, so no I'm not saying that. Just, I think, this is my opinion not fact, that depending on how much junk you have to go through, determines how much damage tho round would do, at least in theory.

[Noir]

What is the weight of a 50cal round as found in our American planes?

[Noir]

What is the weight of a 50cal round as found in our American planes?

around 150g, thanks me

[jtdragon]

Something to remember, the M2 used on aircraft were different from ground mounted guns. The barrels were shorter/lighter and had a faster rate of fire. We got some of the aircraft barrels in Nam to use on 50 cals on our guntrucks, they over-heated really bad. No air flow to cool them. They also did not reach out as far as the heavy longer barrels.

[Chalenge]

Even when flying slow the gunnery is easy with 50s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1grI-30Fk8

[SmokinLoon]

One thing many people forget is the difference in trajectory and velocity.  This is not such a big deal in an aircraft with all of the same caliber, but planes like the Fw190 I hear people more often than not complaining "I just put X # of rounds in that guy and he is still going!".  When I inquire about the specifics it appears that the 2 planes were in a tight turn and the player that is shooting was hitting the target with all 8mm's or 13mms' and not the 20/30mm cannon.

[Kenne]

around 150g, thanks me

is that grams or grains?

[Chalenge]

It varies from 647 to 800 grains (give or take) or 42-52 grams.

[bustr]

Are we firing the M2 or M8? Modern or 1945?

M2 AP - projectile weight 706.7 gr (45.80 g) - 2,810 fps - 2004 --- AAF Manual 200-1 1\1945 - 2700fps

M8 API- projectile weight 622.5 gr (40.34 g) - 2,910 fps - 2004 --- AAF Manual 200-1 1\1945 - 2870fps

[Chalenge]

Why not list them all? Mk211, Spotter, WP, APIT, AP, API, IT, Tracer, Ball, APEI. . . I like APEI.

[Ninthmessiah]

Cannons have way more snapshot potential.  I think the people who  seriously contest this fact are in the minority.  However, one obvious problem true to all rounds is that they stop whenever they hit something.  They don't go through whatever your shooting.  .50s should go through everything.

Having said that, I've recently brought my .50s to <300yrds and have started sawing off vert stabs and killing pilots with 1/8sec bursts.  Sure I get hits on targets at 400yrds, but I do most of my catastrophic damage at <300.

If your having problems with your .50s, I'd say look at your films.  Look at the ranges in which you land hits and compare them to the ranges in which you land that final burst which actually destroys the plane.

[Chalenge]

I disagree. While an aircraft with 50s can take (unloaded) snapshots at up to 800 yds a cannon equipped aircraft will most likely not be able to do the same, at least not with the same ease. Of course, the 50 equipped aircraft may not be able to knock down an aircraft with a snapshot at that range, while if the cannon aircraft scores hits it is more likely to. It has already been stated that an aircraft under load is much more likely to hit with the smaller guns over cannon. I dont think its the fault of the cannon. I think we are all programmed to fly like we are carrying 50s (we do it to ourselves) and then when we dont score with cannon it doesnt seem right.

[Noir]

I set my 50's to 300, as messiah said, getting catastrophic damage beyond 400 is rare with 50's, even if your conv is setup that far

[bustr]

I was doing some testing this weekend with 50cal and convergences.

I rolled all of my 50cal armed fighters back to the default convergences HTC has chosen for a first time install of the game. Has to be a reason for choosing those convergences other than to annoy us.

Turns out those short convergences are the optimal for devastating fighters and bombers with a 1sec. burst at defqault convergence range. DouH!! Holding your fire until the range begins the -400 countdown into 200 just chews up and drops off large chunks of the drones. I ripped the rudder off a B17 with a C202 set to default convergences by firing after -400 started changing for 1sec. I guess the game is just tough on MG only planes and their pilots past 300yds.

I tested Ki, FW, and spits at the default convergences and achived superior damage results. It's expected that the chemical payload in 20mm rounds makes distance a none issue. Dispersion becomes a relavent factor 400 and past though in the odds of enough rounds landing on a fighter sized target.

With the speeds in the LWMA and more often a prediliction for many players to avoidance than fighting. I can see how many of us logicly thought by pulling out the convergences we would have a known long distance IP point to use in the face of this. The only time I shoot down a con 400 and longer, I suspect is luck and an MG round kills the pilot. Luck has even landed HE shells at long distance on occasion but, not as a consistant thing except against bombers becasue of the size more than my gunnery. Luck is just that with an historicly modeled dispersion cone.

At 400yds the cone for MG and 20mm is about 5ft and at 600yds about 10ft. At 300yds its about 3ft and gets tighter closer. The game default convergences give a very concentrated dispersion cone between 275 and 350. A bit like the expected near range patterns I've found in harmonization manuals from WW2. Probably the same ones HTC used to help program gunnery in this game.

[Tank-Ace]

What's the dispersal cone for the MK 108 then? If .50s have a 10ft cone at 600yds, then the 30mm must be more accurate than one would initially think, as the biggest problems you get with aiming 30mms are low velocity (and high drop as a related issue) and rate of fire, in that order.

Even at 500+ yds, I could typically count on a round or two hitting the target with just a 5 round burst (assuming I guessed correctly which way he would break).